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“Show me a person who believes in Noah’s ark and I will show you a Trump voter,”

Which is why it's so remarkable. So many legends corroborating the original story.

Except you have a major problem.. The geological evidence is clear that there never was a global flood..
Global Floods would be very easy to spot in geologic history..
And all of geology is quite clear.. Not to mention all the problems that arise regarding biogeography that make a global flood impossible.
 

Calminian

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Except you have a major problem.. The geological evidence is clear that there never was a global flood..

So now you want to switch to science. History not working out for you?

Global Floods would be very easy to spot in geologic history..

For some, yes. Others are blind to anything biblical.

And all of geology is quite clear..

Says you. God says you're wrong. He wants you to believe the history book he preserved for you. As Christ said, if you're not willing to believe Moses, you won't even believe someone raised from the dead.
 
So now you want to switch to science. History not working out for you?


For some, yes. Others are blind to anything biblical.



Says you. God says you're wrong. He wants you to believe the history book he preserved for you.

History is working out just fine for me since we know where the original Noah tale came from, and we know it was never a global event.
As for "God" saying i'm wrong..? No, God hasn't said anything here.. YOU are simply trying to speak for him.. Which is pretty arrogant.. lol
 

Calminian

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Here's some stats on flood legends put together by John Morris. Amazing!
  • Is there a favored family? 88%
  • Were they forewarned? 66%
  • Is flood due to wickedness of man? 66%
  • Is catastrophe only a flood? 95%
  • Was flood global? 95%
  • Is survival due to a boat? 70%
  • Were animals also saved? 67%
  • Did animals play any part? 73%
  • Did survivors land on a mountain? 57%
  • Was the geography local? 82%
  • Were birds sent out? 35%
  • Was the rainbow mentioned? 7%
  • Did survivors offer a sacrifice? 13%
  • Were specifically eight persons saved? 9%
Yeah, this is just a coincidence. Just a bunch of ancient people doodling because they need water to survive. :Rolleyes
 

Calminian

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History is working out just fine for me since we know where the original Noah tale came from, and we know it was never a global event.
As for "God" saying i'm wrong..? No, God hasn't said anything here.. YOU are simply trying to speak for him.. Which is pretty arrogant.. lol

No, I'm quoting Him.

Luke 16:31 But he said to him, “If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’ ”​

This is from Jesus himself.
 
No, I'm quoting Him.

Luke 16:31 But he said to him, “If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’ ”​

This is from Jesus himself.


No, thats NOT from Jesus himself. Thats from an anonymous author who the Church latter named "Luke" for reference purposes who claims that Jesus said that.
You actually hear Jesus say that with his own mouth..?
 

Calminian

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No, thats NOT from Jesus himself. Thats from an anonymous author who the Church latter named "Luke" for reference purposes who claims that Jesus said that.
You actually hear Jesus say that with his own mouth..?

Yes, that was a quote from Jesus, documented by Luke. This is a quote with thousands of manuscripts testifying to it. We also find this quoted by the early church fathers in their writing quoting biblical manuscripts. You'd really have to be extraordinarily biased to deny this.

It's amazing you say you look to history, yet you deny the historicity of the most authenticated ancient document in existence. Have you looked into the manuscripts evidence for the New Testament?
 

church mouse guy

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Except you have a major problem.. The geological evidence is clear that there never was a global flood..
Global Floods would be very easy to spot in geologic history..
And all of geology is quite clear.. Not to mention all the problems that arise regarding biogeography that make a global flood impossible.

Sorry but while you skipped school on Friday over climate change, geology proved that there was a catastrophic global flood. The water is still here--now called the oceans. See John Baumgardner on YouTube and elsewhere. The fossils are the critters drowned in the flood and the Ice Age aftermath. Forget Darwin--he got laughed out of the science department as mathematically impossible by the complexity of deoxyribonucleic acid.
 
Yes, that was a quote from Jesus, documented by Luke. This is a quote with thousands of manuscripts testifying to it. We also find this quoted by the early church fathers in their writing quoting biblical manuscripts. You'd really have to be extraordinarily biased to deny this.

It's amazing you say you look to history, yet you deny the historicity of the most authenticated ancient document in existence. Have you looked into the manuscripts evidence for the New Testament?

Lets be clear. Jesus would have died around 30 AD.
Luke wasn't written until approx 63 to 68 AD some 35 years or so AFTER the alleged events.
So its highly unlikely that the author of Luke was an "eyewitness" . Especially since he waited 35 years before bothering to write about such an important event in his life.
Secondly, no one knows who wrote the Gospels. They are of course anonymous. So if you don't know who wrote them, then you have no ability to check them for accuracy..
In court , they'd be considered inadmissible hearsay.
 
Sorry but while you skipped school on Friday over climate change, geology proved that there was a catastrophic global flood. The water is still here--now called the oceans. See John Baumgardner on YouTube and elsewhere. The fossils are the critters drowned in the flood and the Ice Age aftermath. Forget Darwin--he got laughed out of the science department as mathematically impossible by the complexity of deoxyribonucleic acid.

Sorry there Mouse, but no geology organization, journal or PhD geology Dpt we have accepts a Global Flood.. they ALL say.. "it never happened"
 
The fossils are the critters drowned in the flood and the Ice Age aftermath. .

Oh, and this nonsense was debunked way back in the 1980s by Paleontologist Steven J Gould. He debunked it ironically enough in court of all places at trial (where creationism ultimately got destroyed)

There is no way the observed fossil record could be caused by a global flood.
Global floods have no ability to layer the fossils we have around the globe in the specific order that they are in.. ONLY evolution explains the fossil sequences we observe in nature.

NO Paleontology Journal, Organization or PhD University accepts the idea that the earths fossils are the result of Noahs Flood.
Its dismissed as foolishness.
 

church mouse guy

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Oh, and this nonsense was debunked way back in the 1980s by Paleontologist Steven J Gould. He debunked it ironically enough in court of all places at trial (where creationism ultimately got destroyed)

There is no way the observed fossil record could be caused by a global flood.
Global floods have no ability to layer the fossils we have around the globe in the specific order that they are in.. ONLY evolution explains the fossil sequences we observe in nature.

NO Paleontology Journal, Organization or PhD University accepts the idea that the earths fossils are the result of Noahs Flood.
Its dismissed as foolishness.

Gould of course is dead but he himself once admitted that there are no records of a transitional form.

If you believe in evolution, you probably believe in alchemy, too, so you are beyond the pale.

If the average strand of deoxyribonucleic acid is 250 molecules made up of 20 different amino acids, then the schoolboy math is 20 to the 250th power. Do the math. Darwin was wrong about everything.
 
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church mouse guy

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Lets be clear. Jesus would have died around 30 AD.
Luke wasn't written until approx 63 to 68 AD some 35 years or so AFTER the alleged events.
So its highly unlikely that the author of Luke was an "eyewitness" . Especially since he waited 35 years before bothering to write about such an important event in his life.
Secondly, no one knows who wrote the Gospels. They are of course anonymous. So if you don't know who wrote them, then you have no ability to check them for accuracy..
In court , they'd be considered inadmissible hearsay.

Are you an attorney? Look at Simon Greenleaf, leading US expert on the laws of evidence. He concluded that Scripture would stand up on a court of law as bona fide evidence. I saw Harry Truman once and that was over 70 years ago.
 

Aaron

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trolls.jpg
Of all the biblical stories, the Noah tale is by far the easiest to refute.
Anyone who still takes the Noah tale literally in the 21st century has NOT bothered to conduct any research on the subject.
The idea of a "global flood" 4400 years ago is refuted by so many independent lines of evidence that its impossible to take seriously in a modern world.
 

Aaron

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Chuck Todd calling us out.

CHUCK TODD ATTACKS TRUMP SUPPORTERS WHO BELIEVE BIBLE

On NBC’s Meet the Press Sunday, host Chuck Todd used a Letter to the Editor published 11 months ago in the Lexington HeraldLeader to attack supporters of President Trump who believe the Bible.

“Show me a person who believes in Noah’s ark and I will show you a Trump voter,” Todd read from the letter, written by David Bowles of Lexington, Kentucky, and published on January 15, 2019 to set up his questioning of New York Times editor Dean Baquet and Washington Post editor Martin Baron.

With that, I recommend Ark Encounter. Bring friends and family.

ark-3.jpg


Also visit the nearby Creation Museum.

Apparently these kick out Trump voters by the thousands! :Thumbsup

I've been to the Ark Encounter. It's an impressive structure and an informative tour. I liked their scientific displays, and would have liked to have seen more of them and less evangelistic ones. But, it's not my boat. :) I'm attaching a pic from my trip. That's my daughter at the base of the support. 009.jpg
 
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evenifigoalone

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Behold it is I, an independent who did not and will not vote for Trump, and I believe in the ark.

Sent from my SM-J737T1 using Tapatalk
 
Gould of course is dead but he himself once admitted that there are no records of a transitional form.

Gould of course never claimed that there are no transitional forms.. That's a creationist lie that been circulating for years.
(Sadly, Creationists have a bad habit of lying)

Here, in Gould's own words ..

"Transitions are often found in the fossil record. Preserved transitions are not common—and should not be, according to our understanding of evolution (see next section) but they are not entirely wanting, as creationists often claim. The lower jaw of reptiles contains several bones, that of mammals only one. The non-mammalian jawbones are reduced, step by step, in mammalian ancestors until they become tiny nubbins located at the back of the jaw. The "hammer" and "anvil" bones of the mammalian ear are descendants of these nubbins. How could such a transition be accomplished? the creationists ask. Surely a bone is either entirely in the jaw or in the ear. Yet paleontologists have discovered two transitional lineages of therapsids (the so-called mammal-like reptiles) with a double jaw joint—one composed of the old quadrate and articular bones (soon to become the hammer and anvil), the other of the squamosal and dentary bones (as in modern mammals). For that matter, what better transitional form could we expect to find than the oldest human, Australopithecus afarensis, with its apelike palate, its human upright stance, and a cranial capacity larger than any ape�s of the same body size but a full 1,000 cubic centimeters below ours? If God made each of the half-dozen human species discovered in ancient rocks, why did he create in an unbroken temporal sequence of progressively more modern features—increasing cranial capacity, reduced face and teeth, larder body size? Did he create to mimic evolution and test our faith thereby?

Faced with these facts of evolution and the philosophical bankruptcy of their own position, creationists rely upon distortion and innuendo to buttress their rhetorical claim. If I sound sharp or bitter, indeed I am—for I have become a major target of these practices.

I count myself among the evolutionists who argue for a jerky, or episodic, rather than a smoothly gradual, pace of change. In 1972 my colleague Niles Eldredge and I developed the theory of punctuated equilibrium. We argued that two outstanding facts of the fossil record—geologically "sudden" origin of new species and failure to change thereafter (stasis)—reflect the predictions of evolutionary theory, not the imperfections of the fossil record. In most theories, small isolated populations are the source of new species, and the process of speciation takes thousands or tens of thousands of years. This amount of time, so long when measured against our lives, is a geological microsecond. It represents much less than 1 per cent of the average life-span for a fossil invertebrate species—more than ten million years. Large, widespread, and well established species, on the other hand, are not expected to change very much. We believe that the inertia of large populations explains the stasis of most fossil species over millions of years.

We proposed the theory of punctuated equilibrium largely to provide a different explanation for pervasive trends in the fossil record. Trends, we argued, cannot be attributed to gradual transformation within lineages, but must arise from the different success of certain kinds of species. A trend, we argued, is more like climbing a flight of stairs (punctuated and stasis) than rolling up an inclined plane.

Since we proposed punctuated equilibria to explain trends, it is infuriating to be quoted again and again by creationists—whether through design or stupidity, I do not know—as admitting that the fossil record includes no transitional forms. Transitional forms are generally lacking at the species level, but they are abundant between larger groups. Yet a pamphlet entitled "Harvard Scientists Agree Evolution Is a Hoax" states: "The facts of punctuated equilibrium which Gould and Eldredge…are forcing Darwinists to swallow fit the picture that Bryan insisted on, and which God has revealed to us in the Bible."

Continuing the distortion, several creationists have equated the theory of punctuated equilibrium with a caricature of the beliefs of Richard Goldschmidt, a great early geneticist. Goldschmidt argued, in a famous book published in 1940, that new groups can arise all at once through major mutations. He referred to these suddenly transformed creatures as "hopeful monsters." (I am attracted to some aspects of the non-caricatured version, but Goldschmidt's theory still has nothing to do with punctuated equilibrium—see essays in section 3 and my explicit essay on Goldschmidt in The Pandas Thumb.) Creationist Luther Sunderland talks of the "punctuated equilibrium hopeful monster theory" and tells his hopeful readers that "it amounts to tacit admission that anti-evolutionists are correct in asserting there is no fossil evidence supporting the theory that all life is connected to a common ancestor." Duane Gish writes, "According to Goldschmidt, and now apparently according to Gould, a reptile laid an egg from which the first bird, feathers and all, was produced." Any evolutionists who believed such nonsense would rightly be laughed off the intellectual stage; yet the only theory that could ever envision such a scenario for the origin of birds is creationism—with God acting in the egg.


So you tell me.. Is your misrepresentation of Gould by "design or stupidity"..? lol
 
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