+1 for Calvinism?

[psalms109:31]

scripture

As I have already stated to you. It is God's choice of us in Christ that makes certain that we are saved. That is why we believe in Christ, we are elected! The word elect means chosen! And Scripture says we who are saved were chosen (elected) in Him (Christ) before the foundation of the world!

The elect to be saved are believers, whosoever believes in Jesus will be saved.

So rest in the arms of Jesus.

God loved the world that means everybody, so you believe in Jesus and trust in Him, He will no wise cast you out.

We have a better hope than election it is to draw near to God through Jesus Christ.

 

[Allan]

Jeep;

You are correct that the bible is writen from differing view points but maintains the same immutable truths consistantly through out each book written by various arthors.

Do not stand at any crossroad, for your path is straight and narrow with your Lord and Saviour who is taking you by the hand to show you these immutable truths. There are differing views concerning the mechanics of these truths. This is key!

Just as an example of what I am stating I wil use, as an ILLISTRATION my point of immutable truths and those of views using the Cal/Non- Cal. debate that has been going of for centuturies. (I did not say Arminian specifically because the vast majority on here and as baptists do not hold to the Arminian view)

This was part of a comment I made on another thread concerning All Truth or tenents of truth being Calvinistic in orgin:

What you state are Calvinist tenants are actually those of Christendom as a whole. But I will say you are right about Calvinism being more than just 5 points for there are areas many who claim Calvinism will not accept concerning his (John Calvins) full teachings, but maintain the unity on its (system of theology) 5 points. What makes ANYTHING Calvinistic is that it holds to the presupposition of the 5 points. Just because we know Jesus Christ is God does not mean this is Calvinistic because it is an immutable truth. Why, because the the very 5 points of Calvinism have NEVER been proven to be immutable truth and as such held AS a view OF truth. Otherwise it would be an accepted (immutable) truth such as the virgin birth, death, burial, resurrection, salvation ect... that is accepted by all those who are His people in truth. But as we see CLEARLY it is still a debatable subject and not found to be immutable by the whole body of Christ our Lord...

.

Those baptist Non Cal/Cal on this board hold to the same immutable or irrefutable truths but each are seen from differing perspectives. Both can be shown true but not irrefutable.

Hopefully it wont stir up a hornets nest since I am not saying Calvinistic theology is wrong but simply the same truths I hold seen differently but without changing meaning or content of the the self same truths. Maybe it helps maybe I'll just get slapped but, Hey I just wanted to toss my nickle in.

:tonofbricks:

 

[jne1611]

Jeep;

You are correct that the bible is writen from differing view points but maintains the same immutable truths consistantly through out each book written by various arthors.

Do not stand at any crossroad, for your path is straight and narrow with your Lord and Saviour who is taking you by the hand to show you these immutable truths. There are differing views concerning the mechanics of these truths. This is key!

Just as an example of what I am stating I wil use, as an ILLISTRATION my point of immutable truths and those of views using the Cal/Non- Cal. debate that has been going of for centuturies. (I did not say Arminian specifically because the vast majority on here and as baptists do not hold to the Arminian view)

This was part of a comment I made on another thread concerning All Truth or tenents of truth being Calvinistic in orgin:
.

Those baptist Non Cal/Cal on this board hold to the same immutable or irrefutable truths but each are seen from differing perspectives. Both can be shown true but not irrefutable.

Hopefully it wont stir up a hornets nest since I am not saying Calvinistic theology is wrong but simply the same truths I hold seen differently but without changing meaning or content of the the self same truths. Maybe it helps maybe I'll just get slapped but, Hey I just wanted to toss my nickle in.

:tonofbricks:

I'll agree with you on this. I do not believe that differences on this subject make either of us saved or lost. The only thing I really take issue in that area with is when people start making salvation by works. By the way Allan, I did not mean to offend you by the way I posted in the thread. The caption was big because I did not figure how to set it because it was cut & paste. And the way I interjected my thought could have been misread & for any confusion I apologize.

 

[Allan]

No problem, for I was not offended just surprized. :laugh:

I do appreciate your heart in the matter though. God be praised in the highest as He blesses you.

 

[psalms109:31]

Trust

We use to work for our salvation by trying to obey the law. We no longer work for our salvation, we trust in the work of Jesus now.

We no longer live our life for Jesus to save ourselves, but for others to see our good deeds and praise our Father in heaven.

Faith without deeds is a dead faith.

 

[jne1611]

We use to work for our salvation by trying to obey the law. We no longer work for our salvation, we trust in the work of Jesus now.

We no longer live our life for Jesus to save ourselves, but for others to see our good deeds and praise our Father in heaven.

Faith without deeds is a dead faith.

To this I agree. But you do know that by faith the works are produced. Right?

 

[Allan]

Absolutly!

 

[psalms109:31]

Faith

Faith is given to us by God through His word, but it is our choice in what we do with it.

We can accept it or deny it.

 

[Allan]

Yes, but once you have salvation, you can not lose it, is the point trying to be made. - at least I beleive that is point being made.

 

[Jeep Dragon]

Salvation would not be a gift if we had to earn it in any way.

 

[psalms109:31]

The wages of our sin is death

To earn our salvation we would have to be without sin, since all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, and wages of sin is death.

The only way to earn our salvation is death, but that is not salvation but death

So we have to trust in Jesus for salvation.

It is at the end of the race we win the prize, the salvation of our soul.

Those who believe are sealed by the Spirit, not non-believers.

If we do not endure to the end we will not be saved.

If we disown Jesus He will disown us.

 

[jne1611]

To earn our salvation we would have to be without sin, since all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, and wages of sin is death.

The only way to earn our salvation is death, but that is not salvation but death

So we have to trust in Jesus for salvation.

It is at the end of the race we win the prize, the salvation of our soul.

Those who believe are sealed by the Spirit, not non-believers.

If we do not endure to the end we will not be saved.

If we disown Jesus He will disown us.

Some on this thread may disagree with me on this, but I believe you need to be saved. You display all the ideas of one who does not know of trusting Christ apart from self reliance. You think that in the end you will be saved by your own efforts to endure to the end. The saved are so because of Christ's work, His merit, His blood, & His position as the total satisfaction of God. No one who is hid with Christ in God will perish. Christ said his sheep will NEVER perish. Now either your right and he is wrong or the other way & the Bible says your wrong! And I have to tell you this. If you are relying on your self to make it to the end to get rewarded salvation. Your headed for hell & need to know this.

 

[Brother Bob]

If you don't get Salvation on this side of the grave then you are heading for destruction and no chance of Salvation.

Jhn 8:21¶Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.

 

[jne1611]

If you don't get Salvation on this side of the grave then you are heading for destruction and no chance of Salvation.

Jhn 8:21¶Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.

Amen to that!

 

[Allan]

I stand in agreement as well.
Since we don't know your heart to declare SAVED or NOT, we can only go by the word of your testomony. And that my friend is one what lacks the basic understanding of so great a salvation set down from the mouth of Christ given to the apostles and stretching out 2000 years being still the same as it was then!

scripture states in 1 John 3 - These things were writen so you can KNOW you have ETERNAL life. (paraphrase)

 

[psalms109:31]

Salvation

Let me tell you something. I doubt in any man salvation when they lift up any thing other than Jesus for thier salvation.

I find people like lifteng other things other than Jesus being praised.

Don't let men give you doubt, Jesus says Believe in me you shall be saved. Men will come in go, but those who remain in Jesus will live forever in Him.

It makes me sick what men lift up fot thier salvation.

People in moses time would not believe the Lord and would not look at the bronze serpent on the staff and perished. It was not thier looking at the staff that healed them but God, because of His word.

Keep your eyes and focus on Jesus and you will not be disappointed.

Psalm 9:10
Those who know your name will trust in you, for you, LORD, have never forsaken those who seek you.

Psalm 84:12
O LORD Almighty, blessed is the man who trusts in you.

Psalm 91:2
I will say of the LORD, "He is my refuge and my fortress, my God, in whom I trust."

Psalm 112:7
He will have no fear of bad news; his heart is steadfast, trusting in the LORD.

Psalm 115:9
O house of Israel, trust in the LORD— he is their help and shield.

Psalm 118:8
It is better to take refuge in the LORD than to trust in man.

Proverbs 29:25
Fear of man will prove to be a snare, but whoever trusts in the LORD is kept safe.

Isaiah 12:2
Surely God is my salvation; I will trust and not be afraid. The LORD, the LORD, is my strength and my song; he has become my salvation."

Isaiah 26:4
Trust in the LORD forever, for the LORD, the LORD, is the Rock eternal.

Isaiah 28:16
So this is what the Sovereign LORD says: "See, I lay a stone in Zion, a tested stone, a precious cornerstone for a sure foundation; the one who trusts will never be dismayed.

Isaiah 50:10
Who among you fears the LORD and obeys the word of his servant? Let him who walks in the dark, who has no light, trust in the name of the LORD and rely on his God.

Jeremiah 17:7
"But blessed is the man who trusts in the LORD, whose confidence is in him.

Jeremiah 39:18
I will save you; you will not fall by the sword but will escape with your life, because you trust in me, declares the LORD.' "

Nahum 1:7
The LORD is good, a refuge in times of trouble. He cares for those who trust in him,

Zephaniah 3:2
She obeys no one, she accepts no correction. She does not trust in the LORD, she does not draw near to her God.

Zephaniah 3:12
But I will leave within you the meek and humble, who trust in the name of the LORD.

Acts 14:23
Paul and Barnabas appointed elders for them in each church and, with prayer and fasting, committed them to the Lord, in whom they had put their trust.

I trust in Jesus, not because of myself, because I trust God and His word.

God has given you faith through the words of the Lord, do not turn away from His word. Jesus is your refuse and your strength a firm foundation to build your house on.

 

[psalms109:31]

John 8

The Validity of Jesus' Testimony
12When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."
13The Pharisees challenged him, "Here you are, appearing as your own witness; your testimony is not valid."

14Jesus answered, "Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going. 15You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one. 16But if I do judge, my decisions are right, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me. 17In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two men is valid. 18I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me."

19Then they asked him, "Where is your father?"

"You do not know me or my Father," Jesus replied. "If you knew me, you would know my Father also." 20He spoke these words while teaching in the temple area near the place where the offerings were put. Yet no one seized him, because his time had not yet come.

21Once more Jesus said to them, "I am going away, and you will look for me, and you will die in your sin. Where I go, you cannot come."

 

[jne1611]

The Validity of Jesus' Testimony
12When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."
13The Pharisees challenged him, "Here you are, appearing as your own witness; your testimony is not valid."

14Jesus answered, "Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going. 15You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one. 16But if I do judge, my decisions are right, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me. 17In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two men is valid. 18I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me."

19Then they asked him, "Where is your father?"

"You do not know me or my Father," Jesus replied. "If you knew me, you would know my Father also." 20He spoke these words while teaching in the temple area near the place where the offerings were put. Yet no one seized him, because his time had not yet come.

21Once more Jesus said to them, "I am going away, and you will look for me, and you will die in your sin. Where I go, you cannot come."

No one here has questioned Jesus as being worthy of praise, glory, admiration. We are trying to tell you, that to believe that after you have received Christ, that is believing on him as your saviour, trusting him fully as God's provided refuge for all who will believe, that after that, you can lose what you have in him & go to hell makes Christ a failure as a saviour! Let me show you what I mean. Look at these Scriptures:
1Co 1:7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: 1Co 1:8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2Ti 1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. Heb 2:11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

1Jo 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Jud 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, Jud 1:25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Do you see? The keeping of the saint's soul is for Christ, Not us! To say that when you get to heaven it is because you kept your self is to take the credit for what Christ was sent to do! If you think your going to get to heaven by anything other than Christ by himself, You will not be there!
The verses provided show that it is Christ's responsibility to get God's elect home.

Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Do you see? If any of God's people are lost, then Christ lost them! Do you doubt his saving power? If so, you do not trust him fully! Please consider these things. I am not attacking you maliciously. I hope you will study these things. Nothing in life is more important to you than knowing where you stand with God. And if your not standing on the foundation of Christ ALONE, your on sinking sand!

 

[psalms109:31]

Scripture

You cannot diasagree with the other scripture to come to your own conclusion.


It is not those who are blown back and forth by the wind and unstable in thier ways that will be saved.

Jesus is going to keep believers.

Non-believers will be condemned.

Only those who endure to the end shall be saved.

If they are able to leave us they were never apart of us.

I agree with Jesus not men, it is those who follow Jesus that will be saved.

You cannot walk away from Him and think you will be saved.

If you disown Jesus He will disown you.

 

[jne1611]

You cannot diasagree with the other scripture to come to your own conclusion.


It is not those who are blown back and forth by the wind and unstable in thier ways that will be saved.

Jesus is going to keep believers.

Non-believers will be condemned.

Only those who endure to the end shall be saved.

If they are able to leave us they were never apart of us.

I agree with Jesus not men, it is those who follow Jesus that will be saved.

You cannot walk away from Him and think you will be saved.

If you disown Jesus He will disown you.

You contradicted your whole stand using Scripture to do it.
If you can walk away from the gospel of Christ with no regard to it John said you never had share in it! And no you don't believe Jesus if you believe you can be lost. How could you? He said his sheep would never perish! You say they can!