1 John 2:2

[Piper]

I know this has probably been articulated here. But how do you Calvinists (I am one) handle 1 JOhn 2:2?

He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

Did Jesus die in the same way for the sin of every single person, without exception, who has ever lived on the planet?

 

[Alan Gross]

Did Jesus die in the same way for the sin of every single person, without exception, who has ever lived on the planet?

Not by any stretch of any scripture or imagination.

He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

He is the propitiation for our sins, as Jews talking and being talked to, and not only ours, as Jews, but also for the sins of God's Elect and remnant, from among the whole world of the Gentiles (who are customarily referred to as the 'world', in writings of the time, Jewish writings specifically, and in the Bible, itself.)

Ref: "For God so loved the world", of the Jews as well as the Gentiles.

That Gentiles have now been included prominently in God's plans of salvation and Worship, is a frequent message throughout the New Testament.

I Corinthians 12:12-14; "For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

The same Spirit that gives gifts and callings to specific bodies of believers, is also the Same Spirit that adds individuals to the Lord's churches, by water baptism and the Spirit freely leads Jews and Gentiles to be members of one body and still working in the unity of one body of believers.

After all, they are then said to have been saved the same way, whether Jew or Gentile, and drank of One and the Self-Same Spirit, for salvation, so what is the problem with the two of them being added to the same church, such as they were there in Corinth, to Worship the Lord, together?

14 For the body is not one member, but many.

But how do you Calvinists (I am one) handle 1 JOhn 2:2?

Yes, it has been handled before;

"He is the propitiation for our sins...also for the sins of the whole world." I John 2:2.

That is how it is all handled.

 

[Marooncat79]

Ie

Americans
Chinese
Russians
Indians - both kinds
Ugandi
Germans
Latinos
Etc

He is the only Savior appointed by God who could fulfill the position and mission

no one else could ever come close

not even distant to that

 

[Alan Gross]

Americans
Chinese
Russians
Indians - both kinds
Ugandi
Germans
Latinos
Etc

A bunch of Spiritual Jews.

 

[Silverhair]

I know this has probably been articulated here. But how do you Calvinists (I am one) handle 1 JOhn 2:2?

He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

Did Jesus die in the same way for the sin of every single person, without exception, who has ever lived on the planet?

Not sure how Calvinists [which I am not] would handle this text.

Since the bible tells us: "...He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world."

That is a clear statement. This, as I see it, is an exhibition of the grace of God. Was there a time when God would not have saved any who called out to Him in faith? That most have not does not, in my opinion, limit the grace of God or the sacrifice of Christ.

 

[Marooncat79]

See just above of your last post

He is the only Savior of the world

 

[Silverhair]

See just above of your last post

He is the only Savior of the world

But since you are a Calvinist perhaps you can expand on how you deal with the question asked in the OP.
Did Jesus die in the same way for the sin of every single person, without exception, who has ever lived on the planet?

I gave my non-calvinist view. What is your calvinist one and why?

 

[Jeffrey Carr]

Jesus died provisionally for everyone but effect fully for those who believe. .

 

[Marooncat79]

Did Christ’s death make atonement for anyone in hell?

no, if it had, then their sin would be covered by the blood of Chris - irrespective of faith in Christ hence universalism.

if Christ truly died for all, then all are saved since the atonement actually covered their sin

 

[JonC]

I know this has probably been articulated here. But how do you Calvinists (I am one) handle 1 JOhn 2:2?

He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

Did Jesus die in the same way for the sin of every single person, without exception, who has ever lived on the planet?

I have seen Calvinist scholars (theologians....i.e., commentaries) address it a several ways.

Some view this to indicate the "elect in the whole world", meaning all people groups

Others hold that this is everybody. They quote John Calvin's commentary stating "every person without distinction".

Some have also pointed out that the language of the verse focuses on Christ, not those whose sins are propitiated. So they hold the "whole world" literally means everybody. But the focus being on Christ does not mean that everybody is saved or even that Christ died to save everybody (it means that there is no other name under heaven by which man will be saved).

I am no longer a Calvinist, but I believe the last accurate. An example would be a fatal disease with only one cure. That cure is the solution for the disease of everybody, regardless of who is cured.

 

[Silverhair]

Did Christ’s death make atonement for anyone in hell?

no, if it had, then their sin would be covered by the blood of Chris - irrespective of faith in Christ hence universalism.

if Christ truly died for all, then all are saved since the atonement actually covered their sin

His death saved no one it is only through faith in the risen Christ that one is saved.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

I have seen Calvinist scholars (theologians....i.e., commentaries) address it a several ways.

Some view this to indicate the "elect in the whole world", meaning all people groups

Others hold that this is everybody. They quote John Calvin's commentary stating "every person without distinction".
…

Let’s stop right there. Just what does it mean to be a Calvinist, if not to agree with Calvin on such a key point? Can Calvin not be right on this point?

 

[JonC]

Let’s stop right there. Just what does it mean to be a Calvinist, if not to agree with Calvin on such a key point? Can Calvin not be right on this point?

I believe Calvin was right on that point. What I was saying is that there are several answers given by Calvinists (Calvinists are broader than some will allow).

We speak of Calvinists as a sect of Baptists. But Calvinism proper rejects believers baptism (based on their understanding of the elect). Calvinism proper also views the secular government as an arm of the Church (see Calvin's Institutions).

But when we deal with Calvinism within Baptist circles we are normally speaking of "the doctrines of grace" or the "five points" (divorced from Calvinism as a whole).

Even here there were disagreements. John Calvin didn't have a position of the scope of Atonement (that was a debate for a generation later). When the Synod of Dort addressed Arminianism Calvinism remained divided over the extent of the Atonement.

 

[JD731]

I know this has probably been articulated here. But how do you Calvinists (I am one) handle 1 JOhn 2:2?

He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

Did Jesus die in the same way for the sin of every single person, without exception, who has ever lived on the planet?

John is writing to the little children. These are those of his own Jewish family who have been born again of God and who he is addressing. This is a salvation security verse and is giving assurance that even now after they are saved they have and will commit acts of sin but they will not ever be condemned by sin because of the efficacy of the sacrifice of Christ and his prosecution of his office as a priest advocate now. God the Father and the judge was satisfied and his wrath against sin appeased for them, but not for just them, but also for the whole world.

This is a glorious truth and men should praise God for it.

Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

I believe Calvin was right on that point. What I was saying is that there are several answers given by Calvinists (Calvinists are broader than some will allow).

We speak of Calvinists as a sect of Baptists. But Calvinism proper rejects believers baptism (based on their understanding of the elect). Calvinism proper also views the secular government as an arm of the Church (see Calvin's Institutions).

But when we deal with Calvinism within Baptist circles we are normally speaking of "the doctrines of grace" or the "five points" (divorced from Calvinism as a whole).

Even here there were disagreements. John Calvin didn't have a position of the scope of Atonement (that was a debate for a generation later). When the Synod of Dirt addressed Arminianism Calvinism remained divided over the extent of the Atonement.

And all I got out of that was "the Synod of Dirt."

Seriously, thanks for the reply. Such "Calvinists" would probably do better (and do themselves a favor) by calling themselves by some other description, but that discussion is for another thread.

 

[JonC]

And all I got out of that was "the Synod of Dirt."

Seriously, thanks for the reply. Such "Calvinists" would probably do better (and do themselves a favor) by calling themselves by some other description, but that discussion is for another thread.

Another name would probably be better. You have Calvinists who believe a Baptist can't be one. And now they come in so many flavors (I keep waiting to see a "Zero point Calvinist" pop up on some forum).

But yes, I suppose that's a discussion for another day.

 

[Alan Gross]

See just above of your last post

He is the only Savior of the world

Dunno what you are saying if you're talking to me.

The Americans
Chinese
Russians
Indians - both kinds
Ugandi
Germans
Latinos
Etc. that get saved were Gentiles that than become Spiritual Jews.

There isn't any sense in which Jesus died for lost people (where Jesus had to die for them, as a reason to come and die, be buried, or rose again.)

 

[37818]

Did Jesus die in the same way for the sin of every single person, without exception, who has ever lived on the planet?

I think so. 1 John 5:9-13.

 

[RipponRedeaux]

Some view this to indicate the "elect in the whole world", meaning all people groups

The same John who wrote the Gospel of John and the epistles of John wrote Revelation.
Christ was slain and with his blood he purchased for God persons from every tribe and language and people and nation. See Revelation 5:9.

Christ died for the church of God which he purchased with his own blood. Acts 20:28. It's not the church and everyone else.

Christ is the head of the church, of which he is the Savior. Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her. See Eph. 5:23 to 27.

Christ died to make atonement for the sins of the people. See Heb. 2:17. What people? His people --not everyone.

Jesus was going to die for the Jewish nation, and not for the Jewish nation, but to gather together into one the scattered children of God. See John 11:51b to 11:52.

 

[RipponRedeaux]

We speak of Calvinists as a sect of Baptists. But Calvinism proper rejects believers baptism (based on their understanding of the elect).

On the contrary. Reformed churches (non-Baptists) have given Baptism to adults upon a confession of faith, i.e. believer's baptism.