1 Timothy 2:1-6 Another all?

"in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of his call"

 

Hello whatever! Pleased to meet you.


padredurand. Pleased to meet you as well.

If it had not been for the Lord we would all be like Sodom.

Oh He does respond to all misdeeds. But the misdeeds just show us what we are, sinners. The condemnation followed one offence.
As bad as Hitler was He? How comes Hitler had such a run if misdeeds were not fulfilling the Lord's will? He takes them out when it pleases Him.
But why should He respond to misdeeds when you say that Jesus atoned for their misdeeds? Answer required.

My God is so big so strong and so mighty there nothing that He cannot do! That's a kids song over here. Have you heard it. We teach our kids aright.

Does He to yours? Are you righteous?

Now I have three notepads open answering you. This is going to run for a while.

Tea and crumpets anyone?

Is that 'all' Southerners?

johnp.

 

padredurand.

Thanks for the answer.

I shall get on and study the relevant texts. This could take sometime. We have to go back into Exodus!
Eli was a Levite was he not? That was his family? The geneologies now come into play.

Therefore I have sworn to the house of Eli that the iniquity of Eli’s house shall not be atoned for by sacrifice or offering forever.”

My word stands. I said I'd answer you if you answered me. I did not expect such an answer as this;
God said that Eli's house shall not be atoned for by sacrifice or offering forever.
I said, The point is that it has been said that Jesus atoned for all sin. This case proves that belief wrong does it not?
To which you replied, "No."
God said that there would be no atonement you say Jesus atoned! (Just making sure I have it correct)

Anyway I've made something of a start.

1 Sam 2:6 "The LORD brings death and makes alive; he brings down to the grave and raises up.
A message from my sponsor! The Lord gives and the Lord takes away 'a'? Praise Him.

Now look at this.
1 Sam 2:25 If a man sins against another man, God may mediate for him; but if a man sins against the LORD, who will intercede for him?"...
Eli said that.
...His sons, however, did not listen to their father's rebuke,
Why not?
...for it was the LORD's will to put them to death.

So what? You said their sins had been atoned for.

It jars against logic.

Yes but that is just what happens, it says nothing about the motivating force applied to the will of man by God does it?
It is the same argument used all the time, again all means all, to assert that God does not give people choices unless people are able to make choices. This is a false assumption because back in Exodus there Moses gave the Israelites the law. God gave it to Moses and told him that the Israelites were to obey it were they not? The choice was theirs. To the right and live, to the left and die. Can any man keep the ten commandments?

1 Sam 2:6 "The LORD brings death and makes alive; he brings down to the grave and raises up.

Questions.
Why do we need intercession when all sin has been atoned for?
Why do we need intercession when all sin has been atoned for and it's down to our faith?
Why did God not leave them alive until they were better disposed towards Him, surely taking them out was against their will. What did they do, sin? But you say, in God's face, that their sins had been atoned for!
Can any man keep the ten commandments?
Israelites were to obey it were they not? The choice was theirs was it not.
Can any man keep the law?
Wouldn't He respond to Esau's misdeeds? Why should He? Were their sins not atoned for?
If Jesus had atoned for their sins then that is double jeopardy. He paid for their sins once.

Answers required.
johnp.

 

"He chose the Jewish people from all others, and revealed himself to them. Thus they were the elect, and all the nations of mankind reprobate. When the fullness of the time came he revealed himself also to the Gentiles, who gladly received the Gospel: and the Jews rejecting it, were cast off. Thus the elect became reprobate, and the reprobate, elect." Adam Clarke Commentary on Romans 9

Thus the elect became reprobate, and the reprobate, elect...

You have just said that God chooses who is reprobate and who is elect.HaHa!

I win.

I'm off to bed. Good night Upstate NY .

 

padredurand.

What's in the South in England?

Cars. Little sign of any other life form. They park on the pavements cause there is no room on the roads.
Roger Williams was born in London. Rhode Island? Is that him? Why? Related?
A university, a zoo, a medical centre, busy wasn't he? He moved south and had tea with his sugar?

You better watch it pad, someone is signing in as you!

Good night.

johnp.

 

Ask whatever. He's from Chattanooga. The only thing NY is south of is Quebec.</font>[/QUOTE]Yes, as in the elect Southerners.

 

padredurand.

Good morning.

Ray said.
posted 14 December, 2004 03:29

Wes said.
posted 06 December, 2004 22:11

So Jesus paid the penalty for all sin and no sinner will go to Hell because of 'their sin' but because of unbelief, which is not a sin. That is what has been said.
If He paid the penalty for all sin then, included in that, He paid the penalty for the sins of Eli's sons.

Wes said, If the penalty had not been paid once for all, NO MAN COULD HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE, so Eli's sons had 'their' sins paid for.
This has nothing to do with application but has everything to do with 'paid for'.
A person that was sent to a debtors prison would not be released unless he paid the debt. He had no choice in the matter. If the debt was paid in full by another, regardless of who that person was, the prisoner would be released. Again the prisoner had no choice. He could not refuse that payment in his stead. He was released.

If the penalty had not been paid once for all, NO MAN COULD HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE

Since Jesus was the one to pay for all sin as you claim then all men are released from the penalty for sin therefore your argument about, "johnp, we're one word apart. Take out the word their. To quote the eminent Wes, Outwest:'", falls to the ground.
If I take out the word 'theirs' then you are left with the fact that Jesus did not make a blood atonement for all sin.

There is a contradiction being preached. There is a confusion.

johnp.

 

HE (and you) are contradicting yourself. If God does not FORCE His will on you, if He can't change man's will to serve Him out of His own pleasure and purpose than He deffinately will not FORCE His will for man to do it then... OR consider this...

If He Does have the power and the will to change the heart of man, and he ONLY has that ability, than He also has the abibility to do it then.. THAT is consistant and biblical.

 

You won't catch me again. Who do you address man?

johnp.

 

Jesus came to earth to die for the sins of humankind and to show people in Biblical times that indeed He is God. We learn of it vicariously through the Word of God.

My understanding of Hebrews 2:17 tells me that He not only died for sins, but identifies whose sins He has died for on this planet. There is a union between the sins and the people.

His death on the Cross was and remains for all lost souls. [John 1:7; 1:29 & I John 2:2; 5:19 Revelation 22:17f,g] The Apostle John and John the Baptist concur in St. John and we never even expect that John the Apostle will change his mind in the first epistle of John and the Book of Revelation.

It kind of grinds into powder Augustine's myopic view of God's great love for lost ones. Almighty God is not the 'cherry picking' kind of God that some have made Him out to be.

 

I would say, what if we clarified the verses?

I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men without distinction - for example 2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men without distinction, from kings to paupers to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all men without distinction, to be testified in due time. 1 Timothy 2:1-6

There's a difference between "all without distinction" and "all without exception". The fact that this passage makes the distinction of kings and those in authority tells me he was talking about all without distinction, so that people would not exclude those in power.