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10 myths surrounding Calvinism

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My only camp is the Christian camp where folks are allowed to be in the sanctification process and at different levels of understanding, even wrong. Not this either you believe the way I do on theology or your not one of God's Sheep camp.

Sanctification is a one time event(solely of God's doings in one's life) and also an ongoing, life-long process, which we are active in....progressive sanctification...


Sanctification isn't an either/or process of either a one time event or an ongoing process, but both....
 

thatbrian

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My only camp is the Christian camp where folks are allowed to be in the sanctification process and at different levels of understanding, even wrong. Not this either you believe the way I do on theology or your not one of God's Sheep camp.

I fully agree. Even when Paul address the churches which are doing some pretty bad stuff, he still addresses them as brethren.
 

robustheologian

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I've answered this before. Calvinism is NOT the gospel.

Judging by the answers of some, yes, I think that they are offended by the gospel. It's a guess, but I've been on this earth a bit, and I've been a Christian for a long stretch too. My guess is that the reason Calvinism offends SOME people here is the very same reason that the gospel offends people everywhere, and it's the T in TULIP.

Totally depravity means there is nothing you bring to the table, and the flesh doesn't like that very much. Again, judging by the replies some give, I think that they are relying on their own "righteousness" more than/instead of Christ's. I'm sure that they don't even consciously know it, and again, it's a guess. To me it's clear, but I don't have soul x-ray. I'm simply judging by words and reading between the lines as well. No one has explicitly stated they are offended by the gospel.

There is no way Calvinism IS the gospel...let's take the book of Romans. It teaches most of what we call Calvinism. Yet the Romans were counted as saved before they received that doctrine. Even at the beginning of Paul's letter, he says that their faith is world renowned.

If Calvinism is the gospel that means no one heard the gospel until they received a letter from Paul. But of course this is not true.
 

savedbymercy

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There is no way Calvinism IS the gospel...let's take the book of Romans. It teaches most of what we call Calvinism. Yet the Romans were counted as saved before they received that doctrine. Even at the beginning of Paul's letter, he says that their faith is world renowned.

If Calvinism is the gospel that means no one heard the gospel until they received a letter from Paul. But of course this is not true.
Paul was not the only Gospel preacher that preached in Rome ! If Paul said that he heard of their Faith, then they heard the Gospel, and since The Truths of Tulip are the Gospel they heard those Truths ! The Truths of the Gospel are always food to the Regenerate throughout their Christian life, the Gospel establishes them Rom 16:25 !
 

Reformed

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There is no way Calvinism IS the gospel...let's take the book of Romans. It teaches most of what we call Calvinism. Yet the Romans were counted as saved before they received that doctrine. Even at the beginning of Paul's letter, he says that their faith is world renowned.

If Calvinism is the gospel that means no one heard the gospel until they received a letter from Paul. But of course this is not true.

Calvinism is the gospel in that it accurately explains/teaches the gospel. It contains the correct biblical teachings of anthropology (man), harmatology (sin), theology (God), christology (Christ), and soteriology (salvation). These truths existed somewhat obscurely in the Old Testament but were revealed more clearly in the New Testament. Spurgeon understood this when he said:

I have my own private opinion that there is no such thing as preaching Christ and Him crucified, unless we preach what nowadays is called Calvinism. It is a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else. I do not believe we can preach the gospel, if we do not preach justification by faith, without works; nor unless we preach the sovereignty of God in His dispensation of grace; nor unless we exalt the electing, unchangeable, eternal, immutable, conquering love of Jehovah; nor do I think we can preach the gospel, unless we base it upon the special and particular redemption of His elect and chosen people which Christ wrought out upon the cross; nor can I comprehend a gospel which lets saints fall away after they are called, and suffers the children of God to be burned in the fires of damnation after having once believed in Jesus. Such a gospel I abhor.

One of the things Calvinists need to beware of is apologizing for Calvinism. Such a thing is understandable in light of the blistering criticism directed towards Calvinism and Calvinists. But there is noting to apologize for. Calvinism is, indeed, the gospel. There is no shame in proclaiming that fact in the face of whatever criticism.
 
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robustheologian

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Calvinism is the gospel in that it accurately explains/teaches the gospel. It contains the correct biblical teachings of anthropology (man), harmatology (sin), theology (God), christology (Christ), and soteriology (salvation). These truths existed somewhat obscurely in the Old Testament but where revealed more clearly in the New Testament.

While I may disagree on the exclusivity of Calvinism being the gospel, this is the most well rounded outline on the doctrines of Calvinism that I've seen on BB. None of that TULIP stuff. This has a systematic theological feel to it.
 

Reformed

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While I may disagree on the exclusivity of Calvinism being the gospel...

Please understand that I am not saying that if a Synergist preaches the gospel that they are preaching a gospel that cannot save. If they are preaching Christ crucified, buried, and risen; if they are preaching repentance from sin and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, then they are preaching the gospel. What I am saying, and what Spurgeon really meant, was that Calvinism is the most accurate understanding of the gospel (for the reasons I gave in my previous post).
 
Please understand that I am not saying that if a Synergist preaches the gospel that they are preaching a gospel that cannot save. If they are preaching Christ crucified, buried, and risen; if they are preaching repentance from sin and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, then they are preaching the gospel. What I am saying, and what Spurgeon really meant, was that Calvinism is the most accurate understanding of the gospel (for the reasons I gave in my previous post).

:thumbsup::thumbs::thumbs::thumbsup:
 

steaver

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You guys kill me :laugh:

It isn't the gospel. It is the gospel. Well if you say it like that it's the gospel. Well, no, yes, maybe...
 

robustheologian

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Please understand that I am not saying that if a Synergist preaches the gospel that they are preaching a gospel that cannot save. If they are preaching Christ crucified, buried, and risen; if they are preaching repentance from sin and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, then they are preaching the gospel. What I am saying, and what Spurgeon really meant, was that Calvinism is the most accurate understanding of the gospel (for the reasons I gave in my previous post).

Well then I do agree with that. I would say Calvinism is the best understanding of the gospel.
 

Reformed

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You guys kill me :laugh:

It isn't the gospel. It is the gospel. Well if you say it like that it's the gospel. Well, no, yes, maybe...

You need to learn how to read and to understand a theological discussion. Part of learning and understanding is for both sides to clarify, and often re-clarify, their position.
 

The Archangel

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You guys kill me :laugh:

It isn't the gospel. It is the gospel. Well if you say it like that it's the gospel. Well, no, yes, maybe...

You're still misunderstanding...

Calvinism is the Gospel. But, the Gospel is not Calvinism.

The Archangel
 

steaver

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You need to learn how to read and to understand a theological discussion. Part of learning and understanding is for both sides to clarify, and often re-clarify, their position.

Ok, thanks for the lesson there. I thought that was what I was doing when I question a person's post and then they come back and respond clearing things up. :thumbsup:

So what then when after a back and forth discussion one still believes the Gospel is Calvinism, and one believes the Gospel is not Calvinism? Seeing how I have debated with many Calvinist who disagree with each other on this.
 

robustheologian

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So what then when after a back and forth discussion one still believes the Gospel is Calvinism, and one believes the Gospel is not Calvinism? Seeing how I have debated with many Calvinist who disagree with each other on this.

As one of the mods have said: it is doubtful anyone will change their mind about what they are convicted about. The best way to move on is for (1) one to do their best to understand others views, (2) major on the majors, and (3) minor on the minors. :1_grouphug:
 

thatbrian

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As one of the mods have said: it is doubtful anyone will change their mind about what they are convicted about. The best way to move on is for (1) one to do their best to understand others views, (2) major on the majors, and (3) minor on the minors. :1_grouphug:

Yup; yes; agreed.
 

Yeshua1

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There are many myths on both sides of the Calvinism/Arminianism debate. This has lead to needless arguments on issues that neither side holds to. While it would be great for there be a list of myths concerning Arminianism, I am a Calvinist and I felt that I should address what I am most familiar with.

So I have compiled a top ten list of myths concerning Calvinism. Some of these are held by non-Calvinists and some are held by some claiming to be Calvinists. The popularity of some of these myths may well be the fact that they are endorsed by some claiming to be Calvinists but in reality are unauthorized ambassadors of the doctrine. Anyone who is familiar with the history of Calvinism will know that none of the Reformed giants such as Martin Luther, John Calvin, Theodore Beza, Jonathan Edwards, or Loraine Boettner (who gave us the five points of Calvinism in the form of the acronym TULIP) ever endorsed these myths.

1. Calvinism denies God’s universal love.
A good Calvinist is deemed as one both faithful and familiar with Scripture. Therefore, he/she will not deny such biblical references to God’s universal love such as John 3:16.

2. Calvinists believe that God is the author of sin.
Most Calvinists believe that all things (even those deemed as evil) come from God. Yet, God is not the author of sin. Sin is that which separates one from God. Since God is never tempted by evil (to do evil), sin is more accurately something whose origin is not that of faith in God but of rebellion against God (Rom. 14:23b). For the events that transpired concerning Joseph in Genesis came both from his brothers and God, but deemed as evil from his Joseph’s brothers and good from God (Gen. 50:20a).

3. Calvinists believe God arbitrarily chooses people to be saved.
The doctrine of unconditional election teaches that God chose the elect on no foreseen merit or condition in the individual but out of God’s sovereign choice. This doesn’t mean they are random. God has his reasons which rest in his incomprehensible (I repeat incomprehensible–Rom. 11:33) secret will.

4. The doctrines of Calvinism came from John Calvin.
Calvinism no more came for John Calvin then gravity came from Newton’s law of gravity. We charge Calvin with systematizing very important and biblical doctrines. And this understanding didn’t originate with Calvin. One need only to take a look at the writings of Augustine, St. Thomas Aquinas, and even Martin Luther.

5. Calvinism ignores human responsibility.
Calvinists never deny moral responsibility, but they do preach that man will never choose that which leads to salvation because of the corruption of their minds, hearts, and wills. They are predisposed to sinfulness. To say that ‘it is impossible for someone who is predisposed to choosing evil can’t be morally responsible for it’ doesn’t take God into account. God is morally good but yet will always choose to do good, just like man is morally bad and will choose to do evil. In the same way we attribute glory and honor to God for the good He does, God attributes condemnation and judgment to fallen man for the evil he does.

6. Calvinists believe that no one can do any bit of good.
Calvinists correctly teaches 3 things concerning this: (1) Man can not do any spiritual good (2) Man can not do anything or does not have anything (1 Cor. 4:7) to merit salvation or settle his account of sin (3) The good that an unbeliever does at the root is sinful because it doesn’t come from faith (Rom. 14:23). Fallen man can do “good” but their motive lies in civility, compulsion or threat of punishment from civil authorities, or pride and recognition—to name a few.

7. Calvinism renders evangelism pointless.
There are means to ends. While some extremists (hyper-Calvinists) hold to the idea of evangelism being fruitless, most recognize that God has not only ordained end or results of salvation to the elect but that He has ordained the means. Paul highlighted those means in his missive to the Romans—faith from hearing the good news being preached and the good news being preached by evangelists (Rom. 10:14-17).

8. Calvinism teaches that men are no more than robots.
Most learned and educated Calvinists believe in what’s called “concurrence”. That is that God cooperates with man’s will to cause them to do what He has ordained (Eph. 1:11b). This is seen in the story of Joseph and his brothers. The best example of this is the crucifixion of Jesus. Joseph’s brothers nor the conspirators against Jesus can say they were forced (by anything or anyone) to do what they did.

9. Those who reject Calvinism reject the gospel.
The doctrines of grace is an elaboration on the gospel. Simply put, the gospel is this: "God saves sinners". It is wrong to say someone who doesn't embrace the doctrines of grace (which is five counter-points on Arminianism) doesn't believe the gospel. Calvinists and Arminians/non-Calvinist both believe the gospel (God saves sinners), we just don't see eye to eye on each other's explanation of the gospel.

10. Belief in Calvinism comes from the same illumination that leads to salvation.
Such a statement implies that all who adhere to the doctrines of Calvinism are also saved. Yet there are Calvinists who are not saved—this is evident upon fruit inspection (Gal. 5:22-23; Matt. 7:16-20). There will be Calvinists, Arminians, universalists, Baptists, Lutherans, and Catholics in hell just like some of these will be in Heaven.

Excellent!

2 problem areas on these points seem to be that some in the calvinistic camp though have gone to Hyper levels, and as such, have taken on some of those points, and others have not taken the time to really examine what calvinism means in salvation, as many get it from sources anti calvinistic, or else misunderstand what is being really taught!
 

steaver

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As one of the mods have said: it is doubtful anyone will change their mind about what they are convicted about. The best way to move on is for (1) one to do their best to understand others views, (2) major on the majors, and (3) minor on the minors. :1_grouphug:

But wouldn't you agree the topics which have been hotly debated here have been MAJORS?

The threads I started were on direct quotes from Calvinist;

1) No belief in TULIP = No Sheep

2) One becomes a Calvinist the same way one becomes a Christian

3) God hates the non-elect

Are these not majors?
 

Rippon

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It was said that Loraine Boettner "gave us the five points of Calvinism in the form of the acronym TULIP." However, I have mentioned the fact several times in the past that Presbyterian minister Cleland Boyd McAfee holds that distinction. He delivered a lecture back in 1905 to the Presbyterian Union of Newark and used that mnemonic tool.

But the wordings all exisited long before his time. And he didn't use U for unconditional election. He called his category "universal sovereignty."
 
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