2017 is 1984

[Brent W]

I know you stand by your view, as do I.

The difference is; your view effected, forces a burden on me and others. And my view effected, causes no burden upon you or others.

Actually it would very much cause burden on me. A healthy America is a productive America. An America where we do not invest in its future health is an America that is not beneficial to me. The way you are approaching things, under our current system, I feel harms a healthy America. When you get your system in place and overhaul the entire Federal tax code, we can chat.

 

[Happy]

Ok, I have no problem with the Federal Government forcing me to help those in need.

I do.

Even those that wish to not help themselves.

Even those who ARE able bodied, but refuse to work.
Even those who ARE given assistance, and their boyfriend or girlfriend or adult able bodied children or friends are using the amenities provided for an other....food, water, housing, heating, etc.

You do.

Correct.

I can sleep at night with my tax money being spent providing 100% free healthcare to everyone.

I can sleep at night and so can my household with what I provide for my family.
I am quite satisfied with aiding and giving to whom are in need and ask, without forcing myself on them.

I understand you do not wish that the federal government force you to give up your income as a tax

[for ANYTHING] but that which was Constitutionally provided and intended, (which is a few things) and an exigency that affects the whole and the whole put into the pot equally, and the whole benefit equally, and as a temporary measure to subside and overcome the exigency.

to them and then have them use it to help those that do not wish to help themselves.

Correct. If a person does not wish to help themselves, they absolutely have that right, and me interfering in them exercising their right, is not my place. so No, I do not feel it is my place to force my ideals upon them. I do believe a person has a right to make their own choices and THEY reap the consequences, be it a favorable consequences or an unfavorable consequence.

I do really understand that.

 

[Brent W]

Like I said, agree to disagree here. I've said all I can say about my opinion on the matter. I am happy you are comfortable with your view. We both are with each of our views.

 

[Happy]

Actually it would very much cause burden on me. A healthy America is a productive America.

That is an ideal picture. However soliciting the government as the "health care taker" of the people at large, is not much different than asking the FOX to provide you with rotten eggs.

Nothing is more beneficial to a person's earthly health wise well-being than consuming FRESH LOCAL foods.

Government involvement in FOODS Americans consume - has forced some families from growing and eating their own foods, forced foreign imported foods that are rotten in a matter of days, forced the the genetic modification of seeds, and on and on. American are not FAT because they eat too much. They FAT because the foods they consume are not nutritious. I am not talking about potato chips and twinkies. I am talking about vegetables grown in soil depleted of natural nutrients and minerals which were designed to fuel the body.

So the government corrupts the food source, people get fat, people get sick, and now the government is the new savior of the people's health failures. And? How does the government "save" the people's health aliments? Cures? No. A regiment of chemical compounds, that reek havoc on multiple facets of the body, designed to "imitate" natural "cures".

An America where we do not invest in its future health is an America that is not beneficial to me. The way you are approaching things, under our current system, I feel harms a healthy America.

When chemical compounds has accomplished curing America from it illnesses and diseases, we can chat.

When you get your system in place and overhaul the entire Federal tax code, we can chat.

"my system" of a federal tax code? No friend, it is not "my system". It was a limited system set forth by the founders, that I agree with, but that which has become corrupted by corrupt, greedy, no integrity politicians.

 

[Happy]

Like I said, agree to disagree here. I've said all I can say about my opinion on the matter. I am happy you are comfortable with your view. We both are with each of our views.

Sure.

BTW did you know that WITHOUT supporting forced giving to the government (by some since ALL are not compelled to give), but that you support having the government provide health care to some; you and your like-minded friends can outright GIVE or BEQUEATH all of your money you want, TO the Government to spend it all on healthcare. (without a forced taxation on anyone)

It is a gift from you to the government that they absolutely CAN accept and it places no burden on others who do not agree with your redistribution of wealth.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Six Hour Warning

This thread will be closed sometime after 8 PM Pacific.

 

[Brent W]

Sure.

BTW did you know that WITHOUT supporting forced giving to the government (by some since ALL are not compelled to give), but that you support having the government provide health care to some; you and your like-minded friends can outright GIVE or BEQUEATH all of your money you want, TO the Government to spend it all on healthcare. (without a forced taxation on anyone)

It is a gift from you to the government that they absolutely CAN accept and it places no burden on others who do not agree with your redistribution of wealth.

I sure do know that. You also have options to move to a country that has a more like minded economic view point if your view point is not accepted by your fellow citizens, which it appears it has not been. If you see that changing in the future then stick around for it. However, I do not see your ideal system being put into place in this country. You can talk about what it needs to be on an online forum all day but reality is that this country has been heading toward a direction that you oppose and, even under a new administration, is unable to move back more closely in your direction.

All I can tell you is that I support a single payer system and I see that as a more likely outcome than yours. Right or wrong? You have made up your mind and I have made up mine on that. While I can give more I accept that what the Federal Government is requiring tax wise right now is what I need to be paying. Trump says corporations need to pay less and I can deduct more. If that happens then that is what I will do. No more, no less. It is the system that exists and that is what I look at and worth with.

 

[FollowTheWay]

No one is innocent.
And there is a difference between murder and killing.

Engaging in a war or "conflict", is decided by all parties, who are the body of Congress.
So, if you have supported "a political party" you have supported their authority to engage in war or conflict.

The WAY, the "Federal Government" for quite some time has "engaged" in a war or conflict, is to compel the people at large, to PAY FOR the WAR, and then PAY FOR the DAMAGES.

Trump set forth a different idea, which is to: First be asked for assistance, decide IF the US will assist, according to the Constitution, (ie Congressional voting) and then the Requester of assistance FUND the US's assistance AND they PAY for the DAMAGES.

The needless wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were not budgeted and not paid for by the electorate. They were fought off-budget using Social Security funds and debt. Al Gore was jeered at by Republicans for saying that Social Security funds should be put in a "lock box." We would be far better off if this had been done.

 

[FollowTheWay]

No one is innocent.
And there is a difference between murder and killing.

Engaging in a war or "conflict", is decided by all parties, who are the body of Congress.
So, if you have supported "a political party" you have supported their authority to engage in war or conflict.

The WAY, the "Federal Government" for quite some time has "engaged" in a war or conflict, is to compel the people at large, to PAY FOR the WAR, and then PAY FOR the DAMAGES.

Trump set forth a different idea, which is to: First be asked for assistance, decide IF the US will assist, according to the Constitution, (ie Congressional voting) and then the Requester of assistance FUND the US's assistance AND they PAY for the DAMAGES.

Trump doesn't have a clue about international relations or use of the military. We literally have no leadership at this point. The giant bomb exploded in Afghanistan and the move of a naval task force towards N. Korea decisions were made by military leaders in the field without any direction from Trump or the Pentagon. This is an extremely dangerous situation. N. Korean leaders are trying to bait Trump into doing something reckless. I pray that someone stops him before WWIII.

 

[Happy]

I sure do know that. You also have options to move to a country that has a more like minded economic view point if your view point is not accepted by your fellow citizens, which it appears it has not been.

I should move to another country? Why? My views are not unlike what the founders established. I am more favorable to representatives adhering to the oaths they took to uphold the Constitution, rather than ignore it.

If you see that changing in the future then stick around for it. However, I do not see your ideal system being put into place in this country.

They were put in place by the men who established this country.

However I will say the majority have no clue of the limits that were established.
They for the most part are quite content having a pseudo king, and his entourage that they call their leader and fully expect he should be their caretaker.

You can talk about what it needs to be on an online forum all day but reality is that this country has been heading toward a direction that you oppose and, even under a new administration, is unable to move back more closely in your direction.

Agree corruption has a swift current.

All I can tell you is that I support a single payer system and I see that as a more likely outcome than yours. Right or wrong? You have made up your mind and I have made up mine on that. While I can give more I accept that what the Federal Government is requiring tax wise right now is what I need to be paying. Trump says corporations need to pay less and I can deduct more. If that happens then that is what I will do. No more, no less. It is the system that exists and that is what I look at and worth with.

Personally, I support Liberty; the kind God provides which is the same kind of Liberty the founders established.
Provide for yourself, and don't infringe on an others liberty.

 

[FollowTheWay]

Well, if you look at the situation the world is in today, and you cannot see that because we have, for eight years, turned a blind eye to War, and the death that has brought about, then you simply aren't paying attention.

I doubt seriously you have been run out of your own home, had to flee to another country in order to survive, struggled, after you have done that...to survive, had your family and friends murdered, or been murdered because you were a Christian instead of a Muslim.

"Needless" is subjective, and when you sit in the comfort of a Country where you are free to worship God as you choose, and speak your mind as you choose...

...it's really quite easy to sit around and armchair diagnose what is needless or not.

I am a supporter of the world working as God has said it will:


Romans 13
King James Version (KJV)

1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.


There is never anything "needless" about defending those who cannot defend themselves.


God bless.

President Obama had to deal with the tremendous mistakes made by the Bush administration which resulted in two of the longest wars in U.S. history. What exactly did we or the world get for 10 years of war in Afghanistan and Iraq? NOTHING positive. They only served to increase radical Muslim attacks and spawned ISIS. That's what I mean by needless. Actually I should call these wars not needless but terrifically harmful.

 

[Brent W]

I should move to another country? Why? My views are not unlike what the founders established. I am more favorable to representatives adhering to the oaths they took to uphold the Constitution, rather than ignore it.

I didn't say you should. I said you could. Just like you said I could also give more money to the Federal Government. As to the rest of your comments, I've already stated my opinion and don't wish to go around in circles on it.

 

[Rolfe]

Six Hour Warning

This thread will be closed sometime after 8 PM Pacific.

After reading through this thread, may I ask that you consider making it a One Hour Warning instead? *laugh*

 

[Happy]

The needless wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were not budgeted and not paid for by the electorate. They were fought off-budget using Social Security funds and debt. Al Gore was jeered at by Republicans for saying that Social Security funds should be put in a "lock box." We would be far better off if this had been done.

I hardly give any one man or any one "political" party credit for fund shifting and spending inappropriately.

A "lock box". Funny. That purports to present it as untouchable except for the purpose it was created. The SS is nothing but a ponzi scheme and numerous politicians have created legislation to get their sticky fingers on those funds and use them for numerous things OTHER than the purpose for which it was created.

 

[Happy]

I didn't say you should. I said you could. Just like you said I could also give more money to the Federal Government. As to the rest of your comments, I've already stated my opinion and don't wish to go around in circles on it.

Well of course "I could".

I didn't know IF you knew you could "give" or "bequeath" money to the government above and beyond a compelled taxation.

 

[FollowTheWay]

I hardly give any one man or any one "political" party credit for fund shifting and spending inappropriately.

A "lock box". Funny. That purports to present it as untouchable except for the purpose it was created. The SS is nothing but a ponzi scheme and numerous politicians have created legislation to get their sticky fingers on those funds and use them for numerous things OTHER than the purpose for which it was created.

If you take down Social Security you take down at least the 60% of American retirees who use it as more than 50% of their income. It can be fixed simply by making some tweaks as Reagan did. One obvious one is to increase the maximum amount of earnings subject to SS taxation. Gore did propose NOT using SS funds for anything other than their intended purpose by GW Bush and Dick Cheney decided to wage unnecessary wars off-budget using those funds.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

This thread is closed.

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