2ed of 2 Thess. 2:1-4, the Rapture

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:

I see many flaws in this typical post-tribulation rapture,a-millennial (no physical Millennial Kingdom of Christ).

#1. This is not a-millennial. Rather it predicts a literal millennium as Rev 20 describes it that starts with the "FIRST resurrection" as Rev 20 states.

#2. You aready admitted that the sequence fits the one God gives in Matt 24.

#3. The fact that you have questions about how God's sequence works is not the same thing as proving that the Matt 24 sequence is flawed.

The clear teaching is a real physical 2nd coming AND a real literal 1000 years - millenium that starts with the REAL "first resurrection" as stated in Rev 20.

It includes Christ really physically taking the saints to be "with Him" in heaven as He promised He would do when He "comes again" John 14:1-3.

And it includes the saints REALLY being raised in that FIRST resurrection as both Rev 20 and 1Thess 4 testify with the living also CAUGHT UP with them in the air to be WITH Christ IN heaven!

It is all real, all literal.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

9. Bob Ryan:
//The time line according to Matthew 24

1. church age continues <== you are here!
Matthew 24:4-15

2. Tribulation time
Matthew 24:21-28

3. Second Advent of Jesus event
Matthew 24:29-30)

4. rapture/resurrection event
Matthew 24:31-44, Rev 20:4-5

5. Millennium - Rev 20:5-end
---
Notice that my numbering follows the same text sequence of Matt 24 instead of being jumbled up? //

Ed said --
Yes, I see.

That is progress.

Ed said
However, to me it does NOT answer the
questions that the disciples asked in Matthew 24:3.

In fact it does. They asked about the destruction of Jerusalem and about the return of Christ. The sequence covers ALL of that ... including Jerusalem surrounded by armies.

Your view of trying to solve the question with a DIFFERENT sequence other than the one christ gives in Matt 24 -- is not really a "better sequence" as you suppose.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Me4Him]

BOB

I'm still at a "lost" to understanding how you explain the "no Gap" theory, IF all that was suppose to be accomplished, hasn't been accomplished.

Da 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,

1. to finish the transgression,
2. and to make an end of sins,
3. and to make reconciliation for iniquity,
4. and to bring in everlasting righteousness,
5. and to seal up the vision and prophecy,
6. and to anoint the most Holy.

ALL these have been accomplished for the church, but not for Israel.

And if they are not finished for Israel,

The "Conformation" of the covenant occurs during the same week the "Abomination of Desolation" takes place, "in the midst of". (Middle of the week)

Da 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:

and in the midst of the week

he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

"WHO/WHAT" is this group that the covenant is confirmed with during the same week??

And how can the covenant be confirmed for "one week" if the week is only a "Half week"??

"WHERE" does this fit into scripture, anyplace??

 

[Ed Edwards]

Remember that the Mount Olivet Discourse (MOD) in
Matthew 24-25 is also in all the synoptic gospels.
The MOD is also in Mark 13
Parts of the MOD are also found in Luke 17:26-37 and
Luke 21:7-38. In fact Luke 21:37-38 defines:
'Mount Olivet Discourse'.

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:

Of course, if the sanctuary is to be cleansed at the Glorious Second
Coming Event (Jesus destroys the Antichrist and his lackeys and sets
up a physical Millennial Kingdom) - then the Rapture of the church
must take place about seven years earlier:

1. rapture in 2428AD
2. rapture in 2368AD
3. rapture in 2323AD (has a nice repetition to it)
4. rapture in 2320AD
5. rapture in 2293AD
6. rapture in 2290AD

(because 'no man knows the day or the hour' we could sure use
a woman's help here

)

I'm sure "Hilleary Clinton" will help us "figure it out".

According to "EVERYTHING" in scripture, the rapture should occur within about the next six years, or there's going to be some prophecies "FAIL".

I'll post one, but even Jesus promised to be "BACK ON EARTH", early in the morning of the "THIRD DAY". (day=1000 years)

If you'll go back and look at the previously posted chart, you can "count the days" until his return, almost all my charts show this, however most don't notice it.

Both Fig tree parable have a "TIME LIMIT" placed on them, "THIS GENERATION". (70 years)

Jesus only said we could know the "DAY AND HOUR", he didn't mention the "WEEK" (Feast of trumpets) "MONTH", (sept-Oct) or the "YEAR", (I'd shore nuff like to know that one)

 

[Ed Edwards]

1) From Adam until the descending of New Jerusalem,
how many ages are there?

-

2) Is the Holy Spirit required for salvation?

-

3) Does/Has God changed?

-

4) Does/Has Jesus changed (besides the obvious)?

-

5) Is the Holy Spirit "raptured" at the same
time as the believers?

-

6) Who are the 144,000 sealed Jews?

-

7) Are these 144K Jews evangelists?

-

8) Is there more than one way or method that one can be saved?

-

9) Are there different classes of the saved?

-

A) Can the Jews be saved outside of Jesus?

-

B) Is works necessary for salvation?

-

C) Will there be a mass period of evangelism during
the tribulation?

-.

D) Is martyrdom a prerequisite for salvation
during the tribulation?

-.

E) If the Holy Spirit is not here during the tribulation
then how can anyone be saved?

-

F) Can God protect His children on the earth from His wrath?

-

10) Are those mentioned throughout the NT as elect
the Jews or the Church?

-

11) What are the moral implications on pre-tribbers
if they are wrong and the Lord comes at the
end of the tribulation only once?

-

12) Does my belief in a post-trib return of our Lord affect
or negate my "rapture" at the beginning of the tribulation?

-

13) Do you believe that only spiritual Christians
will be "raptured" out at the beginning of the
tribulation, leaving non-spiritual ones here?

-

14) Do you believe that since the word "church"
is not found between Revelation 4 and 21 the church
is not on the earth?

-

15) Since the early church fathers (ECFs) did not
believe in a pre-trib "rapture" did that affect
their salvation?

-

16) Which is superior, the English translations,
or the original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek?

-

17) Do you believe the tribulation will be pre-mil,
post-mil, or a-mil?

-

18) Are the church-age saints (those today)
considered the Bride of Christ?

-

19) Are the OT saints considered part of the Bride of Christ?

-

1A) Are the trib-saints considered part of the Bride of Christ?

-

1B) Are the Jews who are saved after the tribulation
saved outside of the blood of Christ?

-

1C) Why are people saying today "Where is the
promise of His return?" (Fulfilling
the scripture: 2 Peter 3:4 And saying,
Where is the promise of his coming?
for since the fathers fell asleep,
all things continue as they were from
the beginning of the creation.)

-

1D) Can you, as a pre-tribulationist, afford to be wrong?

-

1E) What are the implications on you, your family,
your friends, your church, should pre-trib be proven wrong?

-

1F) Can you quote a verse for us that says,
in the words of Christ, Peter, John, Paul,
whoever, "After that tribulation I will gather my church."?

-

20) You said you've been studying the Word forhow long?
Did you arrive at pre-trib on your own,
or did you first discover it in the writings
of Lindsay/Pentecost/Kirban/Scofield/Ryrie/LaHaye/Walvoord/Larkin, et.al.?

-

Nice questions, Brother [name snipped].
And your answers are?
Anybody who feels so lead is welcome to answer this
set of questions.

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by BobRyan:

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:

And it includes the saints REALLY being raised in that FIRST resurrection as both Rev 20 and 1Thess 4 testify with the living also CAUGHT UP with them in the air to be WITH Christ IN heaven!

It is all real, all literal.

In Christ,

Bob [/QB]

One of the "MOST COMMON" mistake made is refering to the RAPTURE" as a "RESSURRCTION",

IT IS NOT.

"EVERY PLACE" you find the word "resurrection" used, they are BACK ON EARTH, ALIVE.

In the rapture, they come out of the grave/the living changed, and preceed directly to Heaven, they "ARE NOT" back on earth, alive.

However, when we return "WITH JESUS" at the end of the trib, it is referred to as the "FIRST RESURRECTION", not the "SECOND".

I know people use the word resurrection to describe the rapture but "TECHNICALLY", it is "WRONG", and can lead to confusion when applied to event's describing prophecy.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Me4Him: //I know people use the word resurrection to describe the rapture
but "TECHNICALLY", it is "WRONG", and can lead to confusion when
applied to event's describing prophecy.//

Yep, misunderstood definitions can be confusing.
Unfortunately, you have to use the definitions people use,
not the ones you think are neat.
(Alternatively you have to make sure you specify the definitions
you are using. This leads to problems because you have to
make sure you are always using the same definition. Note that
the Bible is NOT have to use the same definition each time it
uses the same term.)

Here is the most common usage of some terms:

Resurrection - that which is dead is come alive again

Rapture - the change from a temporal body to an eternal body of the living

First Resurrection - the resurrections and/or raptures of the just in Christ

Second Resurrection - the resurrection of the unjust

Rapture event - the pretribulation rapture/resurrection

Resurrection event - the postribulation rapture/resurrection

Other comments:
Me4Him: //However, when we return "WITH JESUS" at the end of the trib,
it is referred to as the "FIRST RESURRECTION", not the "SECOND".//

I prefer to think of the FIRST RESURRECTION as the general resurrections
of the saints (either set of saints). There will be one before the
Tribulation period (perchance 200-400 Million will be raptured and
maybe 2,000 Million resurrected - if it happens now.
After the Tribulation period i can only see a few thousand being
raptured. The rapture after the Tribulation period is hardly worth
mentioning (so it is called a Resurrection).


BTW, the whole difference between post-trib pre-mill, mid-trib pre-mill,
and pre-trib pre-mill is DEFINITIONS OF WORDS.

Here are the key words and the key verses for eschatological variants:

1. The initial "And' in Matthew 24:31
2. The 'and' in Matthew 24:3 relating 'Coming' and 'end of the age'
3. The 'and' in 2 Thessalonians 2:1 relating the 'gathering' and the 'Coming'
4. The 'first' in 'first resurrection' in Revelation 20:5-6
5. The 'and' in Revelation 20:4 relating those on 'thrones' and those 'beheaded'
6. The 'day' in 2 Peter 3:10
7. the 'day' in 2 Thessalonians 2:2-3

Such simple words: 'first', 'and', and 'day'.

If you make the 'day' in 2 Thess 2:2-3 and the 'day' in 2 Peter 3:10
the same, then you have to be a-mill (spiritualize the Millinnial Kingdom).
If however, you see the 'Day of the Lord' in 2 Thess 2:2-3 as
the physical Tribulation Period and the "Day of the Lord in 2 Peter 3:10
as the physical Millinnial Kingdom you can be pre-mill.

 

[Ed Edwards]

BobRyan: //In the "explanation" given in Daniel 9 the Angel gives a starting
event and also points to the 490 years as being decreed. (selected
out from the 2300 as the first 490 in that 2300 day timeline and having
an explicit start point).

//So having the Angel give the start point - instead of just randomly
guessing around for it - is much more reliable.//

Alright. The 490 days ended in 27AD.
2300-490 leaves 1910 days left after 27AD.
1910+27 = 1937AD. The Second Coming was in 1937.
Seven years earlier in 1930 was the Rapture.
We are in year 68 of the Millinnial Kingdom.
Yep, very interesting.

Or maybe the Lord arose in 33AD so the 2300 years is up
in 1943AD. That is the year the Antichrist is to be born.
I was born that year -- just what did you intend by
the word 'reliable'?

 

[prophecynut]

1) From Adam until the descending of New Jerusalem,
how many ages are there?

- 4, Conscience, Law, Grace, Millennium

2) Is the Holy Spirit required for salvation?

- Absolutely

3) Does/Has God changed?

- No, his plan does

4) Does/Has Jesus changed (besides the obvious)?

- No

5) Is the Holy Spirit "raptured" at the same
time as the believers?

- Yes

6) Who are the 144,000 sealed Jews?

- Remnant of living Israelites

7) Are these 144K Jews evangelists?

- No, they are raptured independently of the Church.

8) Is there more than one way or method that one can be saved?

- No

9) Are there different classes of the saved?

- No

A) Can the Jews be saved outside of Jesus?

- No

B) Is works necessary for salvation?

- No

C) Will there be a mass period of evangelism during
the tribulation?

-. Underground probably, not like we see it today.

D) Is martyrdom a prerequisite for salvation
during the tribulation?

-. Yes, works are added like in the OT

E) If the Holy Spirit is not here during the tribulation
then how can anyone be saved?

- God's spirit, just like the OT

F) Can God protect His children on the earth from His wrath?

- Yes

10) Are those mentioned throughout the NT as elect
the Jews or the Church?

- The Church, Acts 2-Rev. 3

11) What are the moral implications on pre-tribbers
if they are wrong and the Lord comes at the
end of the tribulation only once?

- Will maintain standards as we do today

12) Does my belief in a post-trib return of our Lord affect
or negate my "rapture" at the beginning of the tribulation?

- Nope

13) Do you believe that only spiritual Christians
will be "raptured" out at the beginning of the
tribulation, leaving non-spiritual ones here?

- Yes

14) Do you believe that since the word "church"
is not found between Revelation 4 and 21 the church
is not on the earth?

- Yes, scriptures indicated they are in heaven during this time.

15) Since the early church fathers (ECFs) did not
believe in a pre-trib "rapture" did that affect
their salvation?

- No

16) Which is superior, the English translations,
or the original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek?

- Originals no not exist

17) Do you believe the tribulation will be pre-mil,
post-mil, or a-mil?

- pre-mil

18) Are the church-age saints (those today)
considered the Bride of Christ?

- Nope, Israel is his bride

19) Are the OT saints considered part of the Bride of Christ?

- Nope

1A) Are the trib-saints considered part of the Bride of Christ?

- Nope

1B) Are the Jews who are saved after the tribulation
saved outside of the blood of Christ?

- Nope

1C) Why are people saying today "Where is the
promise of His return?" (Fulfilling
the scripture: 2 Peter 3:4 And saying,
Where is the promise of his coming?
for since the fathers fell asleep,
all things continue as they were from
the beginning of the creation.)

- People of the world cannot accept spiritual things

1D) Can you, as a pre-tribulationist, afford to be wrong?

- Sure

1E) What are the implications on you, your family,
your friends, your church, should pre-trib be proven wrong?

- A lot of hardships and sufferings

1F) Can you quote a verse for us that says,
in the words of Christ, Peter, John, Paul,
whoever, "After that tribulation I will gather my church."?

- Nope

20) You said you've been studying the Word forhow long?
Did you arrive at pre-trib on your own,
or did you first discover it in the writings
of Lindsay/Pentecost/Kirban/Scofield/Ryrie/LaHaye/Walvoord/Larkin, et.al.?

- 20 years, Lindsay, Pentecost, Walvoord, Larkin, Dake

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
Me4Him:
Here are the key words and the key verses for eschatological variants:

1. The initial "And' in Matthew 24:31
2. The 'and' in Matthew 24:3 relating 'Coming' and 'end of the age'
3. The 'and' in 2 Thessalonians 2:1 relating the 'gathering' and the 'Coming'
4. The 'first' in 'first resurrection' in Revelation 20:5-6
5. The 'and' in Revelation 20:4 relating those on 'thrones' and those 'beheaded'
6. The 'day' in 2 Peter 3:10
7. the 'day' in 2 Thessalonians 2:2-3

Such simple words: 'first', 'and', and 'day'.

If you make the 'day' in 2 Thess 2:2-3 and the 'day' in 2 Peter 3:10
the same, then you have to be a-mill (spiritualize the Millinnial Kingdom).
If however, you see the 'Day of the Lord' in 2 Thess 2:2-3 as
the physical Tribulation Period and the "Day of the Lord in 2 Peter 3:10
as the physical Millinnial Kingdom you can be pre-mill.

You know that,

and I know that

But a quick visit to the KJO thread and you'll see how many have "NEVER" noticed the "PERFECTION" in scripture.

One word, changed, misunderstood, can change "EVERYTHING".

I think many people have read the Bible, but "FEW" have read "GOD'S WORDS".

I'm reminded of the "SLOPED HEADLIGHTS" that came out on cars, Just a bulb in the center of a reflector, right, WRONG".

No auto Manf: in the "WORLD" could get the design RIGHT, a special reseach group was funded by all the Manf: to solve this one problem, and after three years, still couldn't solve the problem.

The problem was then taken to the Universities of the "WORLD", and an old math professor from Italy finally gave them an "Ideal" as how it might be solved, which worked.

Like the headlight, people never realize what was required to make every verse/word in the scriptures connect/correspond to all other verses.

And that's a "problem" only "GOD" can solve.

Did it ever occur to you that since the OT saints were "resurrected" (back on earth) and appeared in Jerusalem and then taken to heaven with Jesus when he ascended, that none of their "remains" are in their "tombs"?? (Joseph's tomb)

 

[Ed Edwards]

Me4Him: //Did it ever occur to you that since the OT saints were "resurrected" (back on earth) and appeared in Jerusalem and then taken to heaven with Jesus when he ascended, that none of their "remains" are in their "tombs"?? (Joseph's tomb)//

That occured to me. It seems quite obvious.
And it sure beats having a general resurrection
of the OT Saints at the mid-trib crises when
the two witnesses are resurrected.

That Resurrection is listed in my five Resurrections document:
------------------------------------------------

\o/ Glory to the Lord \o/

\o/ Praise be to Jesus \o/

Five Resurrections
Found in the Holy Bible
Compared and Contrasted

The Lord God is a resurrecting God.

Definitions:

New Testament: God's contract on goy
Old Testament: God's contract on Yisrael
Resurrection: a person who was dead is alive
Saint: a person on God's list (AKA: Book of Life)
Tribulation: AKA: The Time of Jacob's Trouble (Jeremiah 30:4-7);
--Yisrael passing under the rod (Ezekiel 20:34-3;
--Melting Pot (Ezekiel 22:19-22);
--Time of Trouble (Daniel 12:1); etc.
Resurrection: a person who was dead is alive
goy - Yisraeli term for gentiles (probably slightly derogotory)
Yisrael - Transliteration of the Hebrew term for "Israel" into English.

How to get on God's list:

Romans 10:9 (KJV): That if thou
shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt
believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from
the dead, thou shalt be saved.


1. Resurrection of Jesus
WHO: Jesus
WHEN: 33AD
WHERE: Jerusalem
WHY: The Lord God is a resurrecting God.
HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
WHAT: Raised to Life Eternal; because of the
resurrection of Jesus, all the other resurrections
are possible
References: Matthew 28:6, Mark 16:6, Luke 24:6-8


2. Resurrection of some Old Testament Saints
WHO: Some of those who died before Jesus believeing God, especially
those who believed in God's Messiah
WHEN: 33AD
WHERE: mostly in Jerusalem
WHY: The Lord God is a resurrecting God.
HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
WHAT: Raised to Life Eternal

3. Resurrection of the New Testament Saints
WHO: Church age (AKA: times of the Gentiles) Saints; balance
of the Old Testament Saints
WHEN: Some date after 3 Sept 2005;
at the end of the Church Age; at the beginning of
the Tribulation
WHERE: Worldwide
WHY: The Lord God is a resurrecting God.
HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
WHAT: Raised to Life Eternal;
this resurrection is followed in but a
moment by the translation of the living
saints into a glorified heavenly body like
that of Jesus
References: 1 Corinthians 15:52, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

4. Resurrection of the Tribulation Saints
WHO: Those beheaded for faith in Jesus; those
who reject the Mark of the Beast
WHEN: at the end of the Tribulation; at the
beginning of the 1,000-year reign of Jesus
WHERE: worldwide
WHY: The Lord God is a resurrecting God.
HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
WHAT: Raised to Life Eternal
References: Revelation 20:4-6,

5. Resurrection of the non-Saints
WHO: All those throughout time who have rejected Jesus
WHEN: At the close of the 1,000-year reign of Jesus;
at the beginning of eternity
WHERE: worldwide
WHY: i don't know, God does
HOW: i don't know, God does
WHAT: Raised to eternal shame & damnation
References: Revelation 20:12-15

NOTE: The delineation of the five revealed
resurrections above
does not preclude other resurrections. The Lord God
is a resurrecting God and His hand is not shortened
by his revelation to us or
by our understaning of His revelation to us.
For example: Two Witnesses shall
be resurrected in the middle of the Tribulation.

There is a pastoral picture of the four resurrections
for which the resurrection of Jesus was a precusor
(numbered here as above):

2. The First Fruits (Matthew 27:22-53)

3. The Harvest (1 Corinthians 15:51-54, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)

4. The Gleanings (Revelation 7:14, 20:4)

5. The Tares (Matthew 13:28-30)

Sometimes the Holy Bible calls resurrections 2-4, the resurrections
of the just: The First Resurrection (because all the
resurrections of the just preceede the resurrection
of the unjust).

The following scriptures seem to imply a simultaneous
resurrection of the just and the wicked dead:
Daniel 12:2, John 5:28-29 (all resurrected
in the same hour), Acts 24:15. Revelation 20-4-6
cleary notes that the just are raised one day
(a 1,000 year long day) before the unjust.

CAUTION: The numbering scheme 1 to 5 above was arbitrarliy
assigned to enable the discussion. There is nothing
sacred or Biblical about this numbering scheme.

May Jesus our Savior and our Master be Praised!

Note that ressurrections #2 and #3 are accompanied
by a rapture of living saints.

--compilation by ed, incurable Jesus Phreaque
---------------------------

Again, the definition of terms is in a previous post.

 

[tamborine lady]

Lest we forget.

The 490 years begin with a decree by King Artaxerxes to restore and rebuild Jerusalem.
Ezra 7-11 Now this is the copy of the letter that the king Artaxerxes gave unto Ezra the priest, the scribe, even a scribe of the words of the commandments of the LORD, and of his statutes to Israel.
12 Artaxerxes, king of kings, unto Ezra the priest, a scribe of the law of the God of heaven, perfect peace, and at such a time.
13 I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites, in my realm, which are minded of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee.
14 Forasmuch as thou art sent of the king, and of his seven counsellors, to inquire concerning Judah and Jerusalem, according to the law of thy God which is in thine hand; this happened in 457 BC.


Once we have fixed the date to start the prophecies of the 70 weeks, their chronology is a simple matter. We can summarize it as follows:

457 B.C. Decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem
408 B.C. 7 weeks to rebuild the city (49 years)
A.D. 27 After 69 weeks the Prince was anointed (baptism of Jesus, Luke 3:1, 21) (483 years)
A.D. 30/31 The Messiah died during the last week (crucifixion of Christ)
A.D. 34 Stoning of Stephen (Acts 6:12-7:60) and the gospel reaches the Gentile world (Acts 9, 10).

If you follow the events, logically, you will come to the correct answer.

The 490 years has been fulfilled.

Peace,

Tam

 

[prophecynut]

There were four decrees issued for the rebuilding of Jerusalem:

1. Cyrus in 538 BC (2 Chron. 36:22-23; Ezra 1:1-4; 5:13).

2. Darius in 512 BC (Ezra 6:1, 6-12).

3. Artaxerses in 457 BC (Ezra 7:11-26).

4. Artaxerses on March 5, 444 BC (Neh. 2:1-8).

The first two were for rebuilding the temple in Jerusalem.

The third relates to finances for animal sacrifices.

Only the fourth granted permission to rebuild Jerusalem's city walls and is the one referred to in Dn. 9:25.

444 BC to 33 AD = 476 years + leap years + 24 days (March 5-March 30) = 483 years.

483 years have been fulfilled, the last 7 years still prophetic.

 

[prophecynut]

Notice the fourth decree gives the month, allowing us to calculate whereas the other three are in the first year of the king's reign.

 

[tamborine lady]

And they continue to walk in their own wisdom.

Selah,

Tam

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by tamborine lady:

And they continue to walk in their own wisdom.

Selah,

Tam

There are "some things" in scripture you can be "Dogmatic" about, but for the most part, it isn't "wise", we haven't "Scratched the surface" on the total amount of Info contained in the scriptures, it's best to keep an "open mind" and look for that "grain of truth" in almost "everything".

When you "think" you know something, you stop seaching, and so does your "learning".

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by tamborine lady:
A.D. 34 Stoning of Stephen (Acts 6:12-7:60) and the gospel reaches the Gentile world (Acts 9, 10).


Tam

OK, why calculate the stoning of Stephen into the 70 weeks??

Why not "Peter's death" or some other Disciple??

 

[tamborine lady]

Me4Him said:

There are "some things" in scripture you can be "Dogmatic" about, but for the most part, it isn't "wise", we haven't "Scratched the surface" on the total amount of Info contained in the scriptures, it's best to keep an "open mind" and look for that "grain of truth" in almost "everything".

When you "think" you know something, you stop seaching, and so does your "learning".

_____________________________________________

My point exactly!!

There are people that are so dogmatic, that whatever they say is supposed to be taken with as much validity as the Bibe!!

Those are the ones I worry about. We can look at it anyway we want, and when we finally do get to heaven we will ALL have interpreted something wrong.

Peace,

Tam

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by tamborine lady:

Peace,

Tam [/QB]

Let's take look at the seventy weeks.

Da 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city,

1. to finish the transgression,
2. and to make an end of sins,
3. and to make reconciliation for iniquity,
4. and to bring in everlasting righteousness,
5. and to seal up the vision and prophecy,
6. and to anoint the most Holy.

SIX things are to fulfilled at the end of the seventy weeks, these have been fulfilled for the Church, but until Israel accepts Jesus, they can't be fulfilled, so evidently there's "AT LEAST" one week left before this prophecy is complete.

Here's how they're "Spiritually" fulfilled for the church, but it will "literally" be true at the end of the Tribulations, or the end of the "SEVENTIETH WEEK".


1. to finish the transgression,

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; (The LAW)



2. and to make an end of sins,

Joh 1:29 Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.



3. and to make reconciliation for iniquity,

2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself,



4. and to bring in everlasting righteousness,

Ro 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ



5. and to seal up the vision and prophecy,

Lu 7:27 This is he, of whom it is written,



6. and to anoint the most Holy.

Ac 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power:


The Church "anoints" Jesus when we accept him as "SAVIOR".