3 classes of People

[Andy T.]

A couple of nights ago I read Wayne Grudem's and Charles Ryrie's systematic theologies regarding God and time. Interestingly, they both have similar views, although Grudem's is more detailed in his book. They both hold to God being outside of time and being able to see "vividly" (as Grudem put it) the past, present and future. However, they both guarded the belief of God being outisde of time in that they also believe that it is clear that God does act in time. I guess the best way to state their position is that God doesn't relate to time like we do where we experience succession of moments, since God is the creator of and outside of time. However, neither is God bound by his "eternal nowness" - that he is also capable of seeing the events of history as a succession of moments. In other words, he sees both perspectives perfectly.

And that's a view I can live with. The problem I have with the eternal now theory is that many times it is presented that God is static, and it depicts him as almost a pantheistic god. Well, I don't believe God is static; I believe that he acts within time. And Webdog and others, I'm not saying you communicated this; I was mostly arguing against making God static.

To sum it up, I think both sides are right in some aspects.

 

[webdog]

Your reply was, “This is not true because of “I AM”..” Meaning NOW. I showed where I AM has no tense and it too when used in changing the meaning of “forknow”..is baseless.

Did you not state the "literal" interpretation is "I shall be"? Tell me how "shall" has no tense! It's future tense. Why is YHWH translated "I AM", and not "I WILL"?

"Omnitemporal" simply means "existing at all moments of time." This is what I hold to. I have shown God does work in the past…..today..and will tomorrow. What was said before by you and others was that God worked outside of time. This is atemporal and not omnitemporal. Meaning .. “Independent of time”.

Your definition of omnitemporal, and how you see it still holds God to the present...and holds Him within time. Replace "at" with "in" and you are correct.

Generally, an entity described as "outside of time" is considered timeless or atemporal. So…how is it that you feel omnitemporal changes the meaning of “foreknow” in anyway? This is what I do not understand.

Yesterday at this time I was on the computer. The present was still the future to me. Having lived through the whole day, I know what happened throughout the day. If I were omnitemporal, I would foreknow what happened yesterday...because I experienced it, not because I had knowledge of what would happen, or because I made it so.

I love this verse...
Psalm 90:2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever you had formed the earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God.