3 classes of People

Sorry..is this addressed to me?

 

Yes..good point. But I think it has been worth the time spent, showing the holes in old and many times defunked though the years "Now Theory" held by a sect of the Methodist.

This was the last post to address the OP..

link...
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=816130&postcount=91

 

Yes, well....I do.

and...this too.

? This is what I say has not happened. I hold to God and His great decrees that works even today. God worked in the PAST..declaring what would come to past...works NOW..as He brings about His great decrees.....and will always work in days to come..FUTURE. I have shown God is a God of time. Whereas others have said God does not work in time.

There have been many, many that have tried to derail the facts of the text of the OP. The post speak for themself. We now stand at three wild rides of empty arguments two of which were baseless, with little said to address the OP from the non Calvinist.

You must be happy if you feel this way...after all...It took 7 pages before a non-Calvinist would agree that one verse was clearing speaking to the unsaved. This was not done by the non-calvinist, till a non-calvinist stepped forward to show others there was nothing to fear in agreeing. The OTHER Non-Calvinist had blinded their own minds from the truth of the text, in fear that if they said it was true, because a Calvinist had asked it...then something was wrong for then they would be agreeing with a Calvinist.

Silly as it sounds..that is just what happened.

Yet I feel we have withstood all means to mislead from the truth. :smilewinkgrin:


In Christ...James

 

Hey ya Dale...good to see some support. Its been a good debate today...a real wild one this afternoon. Make sure you read the blow that was placed on the "no time" view....better known as the Methodist "now theory". Ouch!! That had to hurt..

Just Kidding...


In Christ...James

 

Bob...i maybe able to help you on this one.

Its all in the order of events. We Calvinist have at least 3 order we go by. Primitive....i think....for the most part are closer to "supers"..supralapsarian/near to hyper...what we debated this morning.

Here is a link for a overview...

http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/articles/sup_infr.htm

 

Webdog..I have to say your defence in this one area has surprised me.

hayah -- haw-yaw…or YAHWAH as some would have it…

The personal name of our God. The tetragrammaton, what is its meaning?

It is used 75 times in the Bible

Hayah means "existed" or "was" in Hebrew... This is a statement of Gods power. Most would give a literally translation as "I-shall-be who I-shall-be. The hebrew does not have a past, present, or future tense. It has indicators of time within the context, with no actual determined time. Even in creation when the tetragrammaton is used it is used as in the past. But it would be wrong for me to say this speaks ONLY of the past..for it does not. The would does not set the tense..the context does. Each time it is used..it is to show power and action...and even when the tense is shown in the english, it is only to indicate WHEN this power/action took place. I AM is not to be limited to NOW. It is not past. It is not futrue. It is....fact of being ABLE to do. Thus we have God. This makes your "no fore with God view" not only a stawman, but wrong. I hope you see this.

Gen 1:2 And the earth was 01961 without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be 01961 light: and there was light.

Gen 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which [is] upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which [is] the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be 01961 for meat.


This crushes the "now theory" for I AM has always done work. His work is in the past we see Him at work today, and we have hope for His work tomorrow. I AM...is the POWER of God to DO!!!! You can look each use of the word up and find this true.


Gen 27:1 And it came to pass 01961 , that when Isaac was old, and his eyes were dim, so that he could not see, he called Esau his eldest son, and said unto him, My son: and he said unto him, Behold, [here am] I.

Exd 3:1 Now Moses kept 01961 the flock of Jethro his father in law, the priest of Midian: and he led the flock to the backside of the desert, and came to the mountain of God, [even] to Horeb.

Gen 10:8 And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be 01961 a mighty one in the earth.

Gen 9:26 And he said, Blessed [be] the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be 01961 his servant.


hayah

1) to be, become, come to pass, exist, happen, fall out
a) (Qal)
1) -----
a) to happen, fall out, occur, take place, come about, come to pass
b) to come about, come to pass
2) to come into being, become
a) to arise, appear, come
b) to become
1) to become
2) to become like
3) to be instituted, be established
3) to be
a) to exist, be in existence
b) to abide, remain, continue (with word of place or time)
c) to stand, lie, be in, be at, be situated (with word of locality)
d) to accompany, be with
b) (Niphal)
1) to occur, come to pass, be done, be brought about
2) to be done, be finished, be gone



In Christ...James

 

Hello Webdog,


I guess I am having trouble following your logic on this webdog. Lets review.

Upon the use of the word foreknow, there was an assertion made that a Calvinist does not understand the word Foreknow, for a Calvinist thinks of it in terms of man and not God. It was said, God is not bound by time. This is better known as the Now Theory. The Now Theory has been used off and on by freewillers for years.

The idea is…Gods work is so timeless (not bound to time) and that to us what He did in the past seems as if He is doing right Now. Therefore, When God elected, HE knew the future and based his election on knowing who was saved.

I have shown, to remove time, this is in fact Hyper-Calvinism and election happens with no thought of time or man. I used the word…”crushed”, at the end, for it was shown that God indeed works within time, with the use of His decrees.

Your reply was, “This is not true because of “I AM”..” Meaning NOW. I showed where I AM has no tense and it too when used in changing the meaning of “forknow”..is baseless.

We have now come back to omnitemporalness where we started.

"Omnitemporal" simply means "existing at all moments of time." This is what I hold to. I have shown God does work in the past…..today..and will tomorrow. What was said before by you and others was that God worked outside of time. This is atemporal and not omnitemporal. Meaning .. “Independent of time”.

"Omnitemporal" is not the same as "sempiternal," for a sempiternal entity can come into existence at any moment and then stop. An omnitemporal entity cannot fail to exist at any time. Both are seen “in a time frame”…the Past…God elected…today….we have faith…tomorrow…he takes us home.

Generally, an entity described as "outside of time" is considered timeless or atemporal. So…how is it that you feel omnitemporal changes the meaning of “foreknow” in anyway? This is what I do not understand.

OR...how is it that...in your words.."I know you don't like it, because it throws a wrench into the reformers manual of foreknow and predestinate, but that's life."..?????????

Is this yet another stawman?



In Christ...James

Sorry...i'm busy today.

 

I just checked back and read my post...

This as you know is wrong.

Sempiternal starts and NEVER stops. Existing beyond.. or infinite. As in counting numbers.

Sorry for the typo.