3 classes of People

[Brother Bob]

Its clear...God does work within time. Time as he sees it, is not as we see it. One day is like a 1000 years. 1000 Years is a time frame. To us..its long. To god..not much.

How do you know what it is to God. It could be "nothing".

 

[webdog]

If you can show to me that the future exists "now", I will believe that God exists there. Same with the past - if you can show me that the past exists "now", God surely exists there. Can you show me this from Scripture - that the past, present and future all exist now?

Rev. 4:8 - "who was, who is, and who is to come" - it doesn't say, "who is, who is and who is."

I'll give you two words used by God The Father and Christ... "I AM"

 

[Brother Bob]

Andy;
If you can show to me that the future exists "now", I will believe that God exists there. Same with the past - if you can show me that the past exists "now", God surely exists there. Can you show me this from Scripture - that the past, present and future all exist now?

Does God know how you will die and when? ANSWER PLEASE!!!

 

[webdog]

Does God know how you will die and when?

...and I'll add to that. How? Does He see the future because He only exists in the present? Be careful with your response, because it could come back "hyper".

 

[Jarthur001]

Hello Bob,

The are arguing against their own belief. They are the ones who has been quoting "foreknown, foreknew, predestinated and now they hear the truth of the matter they want to get rid of those words.

What is at stack here...is how you and webdog view foreknown. You have changed the meaning...and your meaning does not hold water.

"foreknow"...has time placed in it. You want to say God does not work in time...and thereby say election happen as God saw who would believe. This is wrong and again, will not hold water. Therefore...we show the holes.

 

[webdog]

Hello Bob,





What is at stack here...is how you and webdog view foreknown. You have changed the meaning...and your meaning does not hold water.

"foreknow"...has time placed in it. You want to say God does not work in time...and thereby say election happen as God saw who would believe. This is wrong and again, will not hold water. Therefore...we show the holes.

If what you say is true...how does God "foreknow"? Is it because He is bound by time?

He said "I AM"...not "I WAS" or "I WILL BE".

 

[Andy T.]

...and I'll add to that. How? Does He see the future because He only exists in the present? Be careful with your response, because it could come back "hyper".

Of course He knows. How does He know it? I'm not sure, since I'm not God and Scripture doesn't tell us how God relates to or experiences time. The point is, the Eternal Now/Omnitemporal theory and any other competing theories are mere speculation. It's all philosophy, not Biblical doctrine. And we should be careful not to base other Biblical doctrines (e.g., election and foreknowledge) on mere philosophical matters.

 

[webdog]

What is at stack here...is how you and webdog view foreknown. You have changed the meaning...and your meaning does not hold water.

I want to add that this is a false premise. The meaning hasn't changed...the "how" has. If anything the calvinist meaning changes it.

 

[Andy T.]

I'll give you two words used by God The Father and Christ... "I AM"

Of course, that's the English translation of Yahweh, the reverential Hebrew name for God. I'm curious if there is any evidence that the Hebrews interpreted this to mean that the past and future exists in the same manner as the present.

 

[Brother Bob]

What is at stack here...is how you and webdog view foreknown. You have changed the meaning...and your meaning does not hold water.

James;
We have not changed the definition of Foreknow. He has to foreknow whether you believe or not for the rest of His plan to works, such as He foreknew you believed before He called, He predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son, (Christ like), he justified (Jesus's blood), He glorified which He already see us being glorified but we are confined by time. It takes place when you "believe" but God sees it all at once.

 

[webdog]

Of course He knows. How does He know it? I'm not sure, since I'm not God and Scripture doesn't tell us how God relates to or experiences time.

At least you are honest. The theology you defend tells me that God knows...because He declares it, which logically results in hyper calvinism.

The point is, the Eternal Now/Omnitemporal theory and any other competing theories are mere speculation. It's all philosophy, not Biblical doctrine.

If He's not omnitemporal, He's not "in all places"...He's not omnipresent...He's not God.

 

[webdog]

Of course, that's the English translation of Yahweh, the reverential Hebrew name for God. I'm curious if there is any evidence that the Hebrews interpreted this to mean that the past and future exists in the same manner as the present.

How can "I AM" be construed as anything but? He didn't say "I WAS" or "I WILL". I AM lacks time but the eternal present to God.

 

[Brother Bob]

Of course He knows. How does He know it? I'm not sure, since I'm not God and Scripture doesn't tell us how God relates to or experiences time. The point is, the Eternal Now/Omnitemporal theory and any other competing theories are mere speculation. It's all philosophy, not Biblical doctrine. And we should be careful to base other Biblical doctrines (e.g., election and foreknowledge) on mere philosophical matters.

So, now you admit He does know the future which goes against what you posted just a few posts ago.

And we are not the ones who pushed this foreknowledge and election it was the Calvinist who pushed it.

 

[Jarthur001]

James;
We have not changed the definition of Foreknow. He has to foreknow whether you believe or not for the rest of His plan to works, such as He foreknew you believed before He called, He predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son, (Christ like), he justified (Jesus's blood), He glorified which He already see us being glorified but we are confined by time. It takes place when you "believe" but God sees it all at once.

Bob you said...

You continue to fall back to the man and time and forget that God does not have time.
You do believe in an all knowing God don’t you?

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=814831&postcount=25


Now maybe you used bad wording...we all do at times. I got to do some work...be back tonight.

 

[Andy T.]

How can "I AM" be construed as anything but? He didn't say "I WAS" or "I WILL". I AM lacks any time but the eternal present to God.

It's quite possible that God's name for himself, Yahweh, does not attempt to convey time categories, but something else. For instance, it might convey that he is the same yesterday, today and forever, not that yesterday and tomorrow exist in the same manner as today.

 

[Brother Bob]

Andy T;
What is the "General Association of Regular Baptists"?

 

[webdog]

It's quite possible that God's name for himself, Yahweh, does not attempt to convey time categories, but something else. For instance, it might convey that he is the same yesterday, today and forever, not that yesterday and tomorrow exist in the same manner as today.

I think you are confusing God's righteousness with His omnipresence.

 

[Brother Bob]

Psalm 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there

 

[Andy T.]

So, now you admit He does know the future which goes against what you posted just a few posts ago.

And we are not the ones who pushed this foreknowledge and election it was the Calvinist who pushed it.

Why so combative? There is a difference between knowing the future and existing in the future, which entails that the future exist in some other dimension. All orthodox believers hold that God knows the future, and I've never denied such. The question is: Does God exist in something (the future) that doesn't even exist? Again, this is all philosophical musings.

 

[Andy T.]

Andy T;
What is the "General Association of Regular Baptists"?

This:

http://www.garbc.org/