3 classes of People

This is false. God is not bound by time...but still is in all places. You are limiting God's sovereignty by claiming such, and are putting a human understanding to it.

This makes my view supralasparian...how?

What does time have to do with giving? The calvinist even claims before the foundation of the world, God gave His "elect" salvation. Nice assumption...but with no Scriptural proof.

Now your are really reaching. I'm not understanding what you believe about God's omnipotence and omnipresence. You are holding God to time...our time, and all conditions about God, man, and His creation to these.

I can...and I did. To deny this is to deny God's omnipresence...and to deny God's omnipresence to deny God's deity. Your view is the view I would be very careful trying to defend.

 

Andy;
Act 15:18Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

 

Npet;
Don't you believe in an all knowing God?

 

Of course, all orthodox believers hold to both of those attributes of God (and there is plenty of Biblical support for such), but delving further into it - what Scriptural basis do you cite that all times (past, present, future)exist to God in the same manner? What evidence is there that the future actually "exists" in the same way that the present exists? And the same question applies to the past - how does it exist right now to God? And how do we know this from the Bible?

 

The verses you used only show that believing is the precedent to salvation.raying:

raise: :Fish: raise:

 

Npet;
I change nothing and neither does God for He says "I change not".
God sees all things at once. He is an all knowing God. He sees the beginning and the end and everything in between. God is Omnipresent and infinite.

 

God requireth that which is past. If the past wasn't existent to God then He couldn't require it or anything in it. Why, by your inclusion in the premise you've suggested, then Jesus being the Propitiation for sinners couldn't be counted to please God.raying:


raise: :Fish: raise:

 

It shows God sees who believes and sees who does not and according to His Commandment in Romans:

Acts, chapter 16
"27": And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled.

"28": But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.

"29": Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,

"30": And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

"31": And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Call it what you want but God commanded it. You must believe! To deny that is to deny the Scripture.

 

How did Jesus stand as a slain Lamb before the foundation of the world If God could not see all

Act 15:18Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

 

Omnipresence
OMNIPRES'ENCE, n. s as z. [L. omnis, and presens, present.]

Presence in every place at the same time; unbounded or universal presence; ubiquity (Existence in all places or every where at the same time) . Omnipresence is an attribute peculiar to God.

Omnitemporal is an extension of this, and cannot be excluded.

 

That verse shows God's omniscience, but it just says "he knows" - it doesn't say he exists at all time in the same way.

 

Webdog;
The are arguing against their own belief. They are the ones who has been quoting "foreknown, foreknew, predestinated and now they hear the truth of the matter they want to get rid of those words.

Hebrews, chapter 13
8: Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Malachi, chapter 3

6: For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Psalm 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

All I have heard is "foreknew" and now they don't want to accept it.

 

Different word, but you can't have one "omni" without the rest, and vice versa.

 

It's because in order to go by a man made theological system...you need to abide by man made presuppositions, and hold God to man's time. Funny...and they are the one's who so diligently fight for God's sovereignty...while limiting it the most.

 

O.k., I guess the gist of the question is how do you defend Omnitemporalness from Scripture? Omnipresence does not automatically lead to Omnitemporalness. One can hold that God is everywhere at once in the present, but since only the present exists right now, it does not mean that God exists in the future (or past) which do not exist right now.

 

...ubiquity (Existence in all places or every where at the same time)

Are you saying God only exists in the "now"? This sounds more arminian than anything (God forsees time...but does not exist there).

 

If you can show to me that the future exists "now", I will believe that God exists there. Same with the past - if you can show me that the past exists "now", God surely exists there. Can you show me this from Scripture - that the past, present and future all exist now?

Rev. 4:8 - "who was, who is, and who is to come" - it doesn't say, "who is, who is and who is."

 

...and this was written to...

Ahh...maybe this is the misunderstanding. I never said there is no time, but God is not bound by it.

Did I ever say that God doesn't work within time? Not being bound by it, doesn't mean God can't be within it.

Again, I never said this, and I do agree that God does work within time, too.

 

According to what they say now God didn't see His son die.