40 days of purpose

[C.R. Gordon]

I challenge you to watch the "TRUE & FALSE CONVERSION VIDEO."

this will shed the light on what's going on in our churches...

http://www.livingwaters.com/listenwatch.shtml

 

[C.R. Gordon]

North Carolina ,

I like what C. H. Spurgeon said.

"IF the bible is dry to you, you will be dry at last in hell."

 

[ScottEmerson]

And again, who made you the judge over who is and is not saved. Looking at the fruit, it is quite clear to me that the 40 Days of Purpose and the accompanying strategy of growth has led to true conversions. Your statement, and the posts that have followed, still border on outright blasphemy. You are attributing to Hell what Jesus Christ is doing on earth.

 

[ScottEmerson]

And for the record, when I accepted Christ, I did find love, joy, and peace, just as the Scripture promised me. Why would we want to belittle that fact to those who are looking for peace? "Come unto me, all ye that labour, and I will give you rest." Peace comes to those who trust in the Lord.

 

[All about Grace]

CR: "Once again...it is not our JOB to get people saved. It is the work of the holy spirit"

Not the question. Again, if the church is not to be sensitive to unbelievers, should it be INsensitive to them. I am not asking about the theological means by which a person comes to faith. There is no qualms that a person only comes thru the work of the Spirit. Try and get your head out of the theological clouds for a moment and think in terms of practice -- should a church be seeker INsensitive.

I can take the logic shown in your post and justify the average "Turn or Burn" Westboro Baptist "Church" evangelist that brings reproach to the name of Christ. After all, the gospel is offensive by nature.

BTW, just because someone disagrees with faulty logic and inconsistent arguments does not mean that it has gone over their heads. If such were the case, all of your posts would be beyond our mental capacity. Read this last paragraph slowly so it does not "go over your head."

 

[All about Grace]

From the aforementioned FEA website criticizing PDC/PDL under their doctrinal statement:

"In the English language, the only Bible translated from the aforementioned texts is the King James Version."

Enough said. Credibility lost.

 

[C.R. Gordon]

ummmmm...ok.
let me guess...you think the passion of the christ is a good conversion tool too right?


"The church is to evangelize, but in such a way that the Biblical purpose for the church is not compromised. Saddleback's strategy is deficient and dangerous"


read the rest of this...

http://www.fundamentalbiblechurch.org/Foundation/fbcsdlbk.htm


1 John 4:1
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

 

[C.R. Gordon]

Originally posted by SBCbyGRACE:
CR: "Once again...it is not our JOB to get people saved. It is the work of the holy spirit"

Not the question. Again, if the church is not to be sensitive to unbelievers, should it be INsensitive to them. I am not asking about the theological means by which a person comes to faith. There is no qualms that a person only comes thru the work of the Spirit. Try and get your head out of the theological clouds for a moment and think in terms of practice -- should a church be seeker INsensitive.

I can take the logic shown in your post and justify the average "Turn or Burn" Westboro Baptist "Church" evangelist that brings reproach to the name of Christ. After all, the gospel is offensive by nature.

BTW, just because someone disagrees with faulty logic and inconsistent arguments does not mean that it has gone over their heads. If such were the case, all of your posts would be beyond our mental capacity. Read this last paragraph slowly so it does not "go over your head."

I don't think we should be MEAN to people

 

[gb93433]

I think we should be sensitive enough to win them but not so sensitive that we give them no message.

The NT talks about being sensitive. When Paul addresses the issue of eating meat he is talking about being sensitive. We don't want to make it so that we are seen but rather Christ.

We can be couteous and kind yet unfliching in the gospel. People are expecting us to have faith and be strong. What good is a rude person or a weak person who wavers. Neither are effective.

 

[massdak]

Originally posted by C.R. Gordon:
I challenge you to watch the "TRUE & FALSE CONVERSION VIDEO."

this will shed the light on what's going on in our churches...

http://www.livingwaters.com/listenwatch.shtml

i somewhat agree that the church has made decisionism and altar calls the manipulation to get people saved. but as i look at the site you have listed it almost seems like they are saying that it all depends on proper evangelism or else people will be lost from an improper gospel techniques. isn't it all from Gods Grace and the Holy Spirit that brings Gods elect to hear the gospel and to believe it? i agree that the gospel needs to be biblical and i believe that Gods elect will hear and be saved. the harm that i see with decisions via altar calls is that it gives false assurance and fills churches with goats.

 

[ScottEmerson]

Originally posted by C.R. Gordon:
ummmmm...ok.
let me guess...you think the passion of the christ is a good conversion tool too right?

I've seen two people who have gotten saved after a discussion following a viewing of the Passion of the Christ, and these two people have been plugged in to church ever since. There was a real change.

"The church is to evangelize, but in such a way that the Biblical purpose for the church is not compromised. Saddleback's strategy is deficient and dangerous"

I agree with the first section, but not the second sentence. The website mentioned is full of mischaracterizations. Again, saying that something that can be from God is from hell is blasphemous. Plain and simple.

 

[Psalm145 3]

Rick Warren's church growth philosophy is not of God. It seeks to amuse the goats rather than feed the sheep.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

We have to judge all teachings by the holy scriptures and reject everthing that is contrary. C. H. Spurgeon noted the widespread lack of discernment in his day, and I believe today it has gotten worse, so bad that even many of God's people are drawn astray by vain philosophies. Here is an excerpt from one of his sermons:

In these days we are surrounded by unsettled minds, "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth." These are carried about by every wind of doctrine. What numbers of professors I have known who go into one place of worship and hear one form of doctrine and apparently approve it because the preacher is a "clever man!" They hear an opposite teaching, and they are equally at home, because again it is a "clever man!" They join with a church, and you ask them, "Do you agree with the views of that community?" They neither know nor care what those views may be; one doctrine is as good as another to them. Their spiritual appetite can enjoy soap as well as butter; they can digest bricks as well as bread. These religious ostriches have a marvellous power of swallowing everything; they have no spiritual discernment, no appreciation of truth. They follow any "clever" person, and in this prove that they are not the sheep of our Lord's pasture, of whom it is written, "A stranger will they not follow; for they know not the voice of strangers."

 

[North Carolina Tentmaker]

C. R.:
You said

North Carolina ,

I like what C. H. Spurgeon said.

"IF the bible is dry to you, you will be dry at last in hell."

I appreciate your response but please remember that I never said the word of God was dry. What I said was that certain speakers were. Often this is due to a lack of preparation, a lack of concern for the lost, or a lack of the Holy Spirit in their lives. When you make statements like:

the ONLY WAY anyone can understand scripture is for the HOLY SPIRIT OF God to impart that wisdom to him/her.

you are coming dangerously close to the Calvinistic error that frees you from any responsibility for presenting the gospel. The Holy Spirit uses preachers to explain and impart the truths of scripture.

 

[USN2Pulpit]

Here are my thoughts...and they may not be worth much, but here goes:

1) "Purpose Driven" is not a denomination. A church with faulty doctrine will continue to have faulty doctrine after transition.

2) A church with good doctrine, sound preaching, teaching and leadership, will continue to have sound doctrine/preaching/leadership after transition. They may also have a higher level of congregational participation and awareness of their own mission of "making disciples." (Is this a bad thing, when we consider the number of lethargic churches complaining about the apparent success of many Purpose Driven churches?)

3) "Purpose Driven" is not just an architecture for how church services should go. There's a lot more to it. If after careful and objective investigation you decide not to use it - great, as long as you're doing something - but keep in mind that there are many godly pastors and churches that have decided to use it as a tool for their ministries (not just church services).

After having said these things, I will say that my church is not a PDC. We're doing something different. But there is a fine Baptist church just up the road with a godly pastor and an active congregation that has just transitioned to PD. Together, we are working toward the same goals - worshipping God and reaching people for Jesus, and I wish them well.

 

[All about Grace]

CR: "let me guess...you think the passion of the christ is a good conversion tool too right?"


Let me guess ... you think the KJV is superior to other "perversions"?

CR: "I don't think we should be MEAN to people"

Still not the question ... should the church be INSENSITIVE to sinners?

 

[C.R. Gordon]

Originally posted by North Carolina Tentmaker:
C. R.:
You said </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> North Carolina ,

I like what C. H. Spurgeon said.

"IF the bible is dry to you, you will be dry at last in hell."

I appreciate your response but please remember that I never said the word of God was dry. What I said was that certain speakers were. Often this is due to a lack of preparation, a lack of concern for the lost, or a lack of the Holy Spirit in their lives. When you make statements like:

the ONLY WAY anyone can understand scripture is for the HOLY SPIRIT OF God to impart that wisdom to him/her.

you are coming dangerously close to the Calvinistic error that frees you from any responsibility for presenting the gospel. The Holy Spirit uses preachers to explain and impart the truths of scripture. </font>[/QUOTE]NC,
I agree...that speakers are dry...and I agree that all pastors should prepare, and preach a strong gospel, but a man is not saved by the presentation by the speaker...he/she is saved by a work of the Holy Spirit working to bring that person to a saving faith.

But for the most part I agree with you.

 

[C.R. Gordon]

Originally posted by SBCbyGRACE:
CR: "let me guess...you think the passion of the christ is a good conversion tool too right?"


Let me guess ... you think the KJV is superior to other "perversions"?

CR: "I don't think we should be MEAN to people"

Still not the question ... should the church be INSENSITIVE to sinners?

I like KJV, but i don't think the others are EVIL!

*LOL*

Expand for me then what do you mean by "INSENSITIVE"

 

[All about Grace]

CR: Expand for me then what do you mean by "INSENSITIVE"

You are opposed to a church being "seeker-sensitive" so I am assuming that the other option is that the church should be insensitive or neutral toward seekers (just using the accepted term seekers here -- I know you would probably chase the theological rabbit that no one seeks after God).

Maybe you should explain what the church's attitude should be toward seekers who are present.

 

[Kiffin]

you are coming dangerously close to the Calvinistic error that frees you from any responsibility for presenting the gospel. The Holy Spirit uses preachers to explain and impart the truths of scripture.

Actually you are incorrect on your understanding of Calvinism. I am a staunch 5 point Calvinist and believe the Holy Spirit uses preachers to explain and impart the truths of scripture also.

Now back to the subject...

Regarding 40 Days of Purpose, I neither condone it or condemn it. I do not think it is for every Church. Our State Convention is using it and many churches have signed up. It has helped many of them in reaching their communities.

I looked at it but there were a few reasons why my Church did not get it.

1. The Price - The Louisiana Baptist Convention had a special arraingement for our churches to get it at a discount price though that price was $325.00. We could afford it BUT you are not allowed to preview the tapes and material and I will not buy anything that I cannot preview no matter what Church or Pastor endorses it.

2. The Program itself - Like so many programs, they are designed for Larger Churches and it requires smaller churches to improvise. The small group meetings would not have worked with us and would have had to be incorporated into the Sunday School. I will never understand why State Conventions promote a Mega Church program when 70% of SBC churches run under 100 in attendance. It would be easier for a large church to expand a smaller church program rather than a small church downsize a large church program.

Like I said I am not anti the 40 Days of Purpose in that God may use it for your Church but be sure to examine it closely and prayerfully before going into it.

 

[C.R. Gordon]

Originally posted by SBCbyGRACE:
CR: Expand for me then what do you mean by "INSENSITIVE"

You are opposed to a church being "seeker-sensitive" so I am assuming that the other option is that the church should be insensitive or neutral toward seekers (just using the accepted term seekers here -- I know you would probably chase the theological rabbit that no one seeks after God).

Well no one DOES "seek" God...


Romans 3
10As it is written:
"There is no one righteous, not even one;
11there is no one who understands,
no one who seeks God.
12All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one."

Lost people don't like God, lost people don't chase after God, rather they attempt to GET away from him...shoot event some Christians want AWAY from God!
Look at Peter in the New Testament.

Maybe you should explain what the church's attitude should be toward seekers who are present.