40 days of purpose

[ScottEmerson]

Question: If Sunday morning is for worship, and not evangelism, then why do people want a fire and brimstone type preacher? Why do an altar call? CR's post rings empty here.

The fact is that church may be the best place for non-believers to experience God. Think about it. Matthew 18 says that where two or three are gathered together in the name of Jesus, there He is. From my own experience, (and from being saved while in a church that was experiencing God through worship), I can attest that it really does work. I was not saved after an altar call or even through a fire and brimstone message. I heard the words that were being sung in worship, and the Spirit of God called me during that moment. It was then that I gave my heart to God.

We have a myriad of students who show up for our Wednesday worship who are not Christians, yet. I ask them why they keep coming, and they answer, "There is just something different here. I want to come back to learn more about God." Lord willing, they will come to know Christ as their Savior. Some already have.

We don't have a seeker-sensitive service, we have a seeker-safe service. During every message, I address those who are checking out Christianity and/or who haven't made a decision to follow Christ and let them know how the message relates to them. In no way do I minimize sin or Hell - my kids will attest to that.

I believe that churches should be seeker-safe. That's a more accurate term than seeker-sensitive. All people, no matter their beliefs, looks, ideologies, race, sexual orientation, and so on should be welcomed into the church with open arms. Perhaps that can be the first time that they experience the love of Christ. What better way to do so than through the Church?

* BTW, what better way can God be exalted than one person come to know Him as his or her Lord and Saviour?

 

[Pastor Larry]

But the efforts to remove the other barriers that many Baptist churches I have been in put up has been eye-opening.

Tell us some more about your seeker class. I am interested in hearing ...

 

[massdak]

scott says>>>>>

I was not saved after an altar call or even through a fire and brimstone message. I heard the words that were being sung in worship, and the Spirit of God called me during that moment. It was then that I gave my heart to God.

can i ask what words you heard that had you give your heart to god?

 

[ScottEmerson]

From the first song in the choral work, "My Utmost For His Highest."

"Still the call goes out, still the challenge sounds, come follow me."

It was listening to the words of that anthem that I felt the calling of the Holy Spirit to follow Christ. I answered in the affirmative.

There was no fire. No brimstone. And no mention of Hell. Just a call.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by C.R. Gordon:


"The church is to evangelize, but in such a way that the Biblical purpose for the church is not compromised. Saddleback's strategy is deficient and dangerous"

read the rest of this...

http://www.fundamentalbiblechurch.org/Foundation/fbcsdlbk.htm

From your experience show me how the way that Saddleback does evangelism is unbiblical.

When I was in seminary they told us that the average person in an SBC church never wins one person to Christ in their lifetime! They also told us that eleven percent of the pastors and ten percent of the people share their faith. so now show me how your plan is better than the averaqge church and different than Warren's. Show me how you are biblically correct in winning people to Christ and discipling them.

Do you really expect me to believe what a critic writes who has not attended any of the services and distorts what Warren writes and says? I have spoken to him personally. When I first heard of him I thought it was a bunch of nonsense all because of the pastors I knew who promoted him. The pastors I knew who promoted him wanted a quick fix. But when I went attended the conference I saw a man who had worked very hard to establish that church. Most of the churches that have tried to model Warren's ministry without a lot of hard work have failed. About 2/3 of the churches that are started fail after a few years. Frankly too many churches are too lazy to work that hard. How do I know? I have shared with others when they ask how I was growing a church I was pastoring. I committed myself to knocking on 75 to 200 doors each month. Most of the pastors I spoke with told me they didn’t have time or wouldn’t be able to get anybody to help them. I did that for almost one year in the first church I pastored before anyone else would help me. Eventually it became a chruchwide thing once a month.

I would doubt that whoever wrote that critique has ever been to one of the worship services. Otherwise he would very quickly realize that many of the songs that are sung are jam packed with commitment to Christ.

Costella wrote, “We could not find one single ministry listed in Saddleback Community Church's bulletin that involved the taking the Gospel message out to the lost in the community.” Costella is quite stupid to make such a statement. Warren will tell you that 75 percent of the people have come to Christ through Saddleback. How many churches do you know of that can say this? Why do you need a program to do evangelism? Show me where Jesus taught his disciples that they are to only witness on one day of each week or month. One of the most effective men I have met never teaches people how to share the gospel. I don’t anymore either. But every person I have discipled shares the gospel. They will share when they are ready.

If anyone would read the history of Saddleback they would read about Warren seeking to win those who were not going to a church. The vast majority of people who have been in churches do not attend today. We know that 80 percent of the new church members in most churches are due to transfer growth not new believers. At Saddleback anybody can start a new ministry if they have already proven by a certain amount of discipline and commitment. Then they must promote and raise up people to start that ministry.

Now ask the author of that article Dennis Costella who is living for Jesus Christ because of his life. Then ask Rick Warren. Ask Costella how many missionaries he is sending out then ask Warren. Ask Costella how many churches he has planted and then ask Warren.

There is a church not far from where I live that publishes all kinds of KJVO propaganda and promotes it around the US. The non-believers know about the church and have made it laughing stock. The church was about 30 people twenty five years ago and it is still about thirty people. While the area has grown by about 50 percent. Do you call that evangelism? Never once have they ever knocked on my door. I have lived in the area for a total of about 14 years.
Anybody have any idea how much effective evangelism is being done by the churches that read the paper by the Fundamental Evangelistic Association. Not one of them has ever knocked on my door yet.

Costella was telling all about the things he does not do. Anyone knows that you criticize most in someone else what you do not do yourself.

So you think it is dangerous that 75 percent of the members at Saddleback were won to Christ through their ministry. Know any other church that can make that kind of evangelistic claim.

Just to illustrate the typical church:Four years ago I prayed for God to give me people to disciple. Within a period of about six months he gave me twenty people who had been in a church I began attending and began to disciple them. None of them were doing anything in the church other than attending. Most of them had been there at least three years. Everyone of them are leading ministries today. We did all kinds of ministry along with Bible study.

How many is Costella discipling the "right way?"

 

[gb93433]

About twenty years ago I invited one of my students to a church service of the church I attended. He had never been to church in his life. But he did have a negative idea of what it was like. He told me after the service, "If that's what church is like I think I like it." The pastor was a very good preacher. He never lacked for substance. The young man saw people who welcomed him in and cared for him. The pastor was discipling people. He is dean of the schol of theology at a seminary and is still discipling people many eyars later. That same church was exploding with growth. The people did ministry without being asked or put on a committee. Over 20 years later that church is still doing well. People I meet who have moved away still talk about that church.

Why are people so skeptical about a church when it grows rapidly? If they are then they have not read their Bibles in the book of Acts. Is their God that small and the world so big?

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by C.R. Gordon:

read the rest of this...

http://www.fundamentalbiblechurch.org/Foundation/fbcsdlbk.htm

I just realized when I read the address that those people are the laugthing stock of the area where I live. A few months ago I was witnessing to a person and he told me about the church. He told me about what he had heard. It wasn't good. He thought they were quite stupid. I have been aware of their serious lack of evangelism for years. They are a very small church with zero Christian impact and a larger negative effect.

Do me a favor and ask them how many people attended their church 25 years ago and how many attend now. Their phone number is (805)528-3534. Their address is 2300 Clark Valley Road, Los Osos, CA 93402-4606. The church is at the same address. The area where they are located has grown at least by fifty percent. I know a few people who have gone to that church once because they saw the name fundamental. They realized it was not fundamental but rather KJVO.

 

[C.R. Gordon]

Originally posted by gb93433:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by C.R. Gordon:

read the rest of this...

http://www.fundamentalbiblechurch.org/Foundation/fbcsdlbk.htm

I just realized when I read the address that those people are the laugthing stock of the area where I live. A few months ago I was witnessing to a person and he told me about the church. He told me about what he had heard. It wasn't good. He thought they were quite stupid. I have been aware of their serious lack of evangelism for years. They are a very small church with zero Christian impact and a larger negative effect.

Do me a favor and ask them how many people attended their church 25 years ago and how many attend now. Their phone number is (805)528-3534. Their address is 2300 Clark Valley Road, Los Osos, CA 93402-4606. The church is at the same address. The area where they are located has grown at least by fifty percent. I know a few people who have gone to that church once because they saw the name fundamental. They realized it was not fundamental but rather KJVO. </font>[/QUOTE]never mind.

 

[bb_baptist]

I would love to hear from those who completed the 40-days project (individually or in a small group).

 

[LorrieGrace]

This is another thread that I cannot read because it is tooo long for my screen. It is discouraging.

 

[Dr. Bob]

How is that? My screen divides this into 5 pages and you just scroll up and down.

 

[av1611jim]

Dr. Bob;
I have experienced what Lorrie is talking about also. ( I think) on a different thread I was following, the text strrrreeeetches out horizontally across the screen. A real pain to move the cursor back and forth to try to read it. So I left off reading that thread. I do not know why it is that some threads are that way. But it happens frequently.
In His service;
Jim

 

[LorrieGrace]

Exactly, Jim!!!!! It hurts my eyes to keep going back and forth so I cannot participate in some of the threads.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Aha. That happens when someone posts a long URL and it stretches the width of the text off the screen. I try to edit those and break them.

Ifyoujustpostwithoutusinganyspacesinaregularsentenceitwilldothesamethingandbereallyobnoxioustoeveryone

 

[LorrieGrace]

If you are having the screen situation, is there anyway for me to do something so I can read the posts on the thread. Thanks