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A Biblical Defense of Arminianism #1
- Thread starter Steven Yeadon
- Start date
Apparently not, because if you knew the answer, you would have so stated. And referencing two chapters - that is like saying "it is in there somewhere."
I think "automatic salvation" is false doctrine. As evidence, I offer Matthew 13 and soils #2 and #3.
Automatic salvation is not my understanding. The parable of the shower is proof that not all who profess Christ are saved. That said, Romans 10:9-10 show that Salvation comes with heartfelt faith, faith to the core of your being. A faith that leads to an active profession of Christ. Although, I will concede that if you trust in Jesus with your heart you are always saved and are given the Holy Spirit as the seal of your eternal inheritance. That is part of synergism.
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
It is the idea that when we put our faith in Christ, we are instantly and automatically saved. It leaves out scripture after scripture that teaches it is God alone who decides whether to credit our faith as righteousness and places us into Christ. The action of God to "give to Christ" the individual (set him or her apart in Christ) is not mentioned in the bogus "automatic salvation" view.
Here is my statement again:
Lets look at just one of the many statements from the OP:
The evidence thus adds up to a scriptural understanding in which God wants all saved, synergism is a valid interpretation of scripture, and we do not do a good work by putting faith in Jesus Christ. Thus, there cannot be boasting in synergism.
Lets say a person hears and understanding the gospel and then puts their faith in Christ. Ok so far.
Now does this result in "automatic salvation" where the person is immediately born anew, becoming a new creation, a child of God. Or does "the will of God" play a part, i.e. He alone decides whether to credit your faith as righteousness or not?
I think Arminians say salvation occurs automatically when you trust in Christ.
No sound synergist would argue that anyone can be saved without God's desire to see that person saved. We merely disagree on the openness or limitedness of the atonement on the Cross.
A sound synergist will use scripture to show that God wants no one to suffer the second death.
As per the idea atonement is automatic upon faith in Christ. IMO that is what synergists call saving faith. The invitation to the banquet is given through the Gospel, just make sure to come ready for the banquet with a heartfelt faith that shows itself in our deeds, the raiment of the saints, or hell awaits. Many are called but few are chosen.
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I should remind everyone of the OP at this point. It can be argued from scripture that God desires everyone to find mercy in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. That God rather than damnation wants all to repent and have faith.
One logical conclusion up for debate is that God at some time in their life wanted even Pharaoh and Judas to avoid damnation. Though, this was before they were chosen as object lessons of God's wrath.
One logical conclusion up for debate is that God at some time in their life wanted even Pharaoh and Judas to avoid damnation. Though, this was before they were chosen as object lessons of God's wrath.
Did not read the thread past this post, so maybe this point has already been made...
Your argument is basically that one has no free will to un-choose Christ.
Did not read the thread past this post, so maybe this point has already been made...
Your argument is basically that one has no free will to un-choose Christ.
I agree. Free will isn't free, though. While I argue for moral ability, I know free will is degraded, constrained by circumstances, and incapable of saving faith without God's mercy and grace to the individual. My thread #3 explains my position on moral ability. That said, no one can reverse what the Holy Spirit does in believers who believe.
So, no free will and irresistible grace.
Whoa there, I do not agree God's Call is irrestible, I believe in moral ability as my thread #3 presents. That seems to be where we differ.
No, but my second birth was synergistic. If you want to challenge my synergism head on then my thread #3 is the one to challenge. In it I lay out moral ability as biblical. All I'm saying here in #1 is God seems to desire the salvation of all according to scripture. #2 says an act of faith on our part is not a work, understood through the use of scripture.
It can't really be called a 'birth' then, can it?
It is what God's Word calls it. A second birth symbolized in a necessary (if you are obedient to scripture) volitional act of dying with Christ to rise in newness of life.
No that is the nature of salvation, it changes us so fully to our heart we will not fall away at Regeneration and Spirit Baptism. Otherwise it isn't heartfelt faith.
If God's will is to keep us (as in a locked jail cell) by protecting our faith, then we are "irresistibly" kept in His kingdom. What is not "irresitible" is God's invitation and draw via the gospel. Otherwise soils #2 and #3 would have been compelled to remain faithful, rather than allowed to fall away.
1) Do we put ourselves into Christ (synergistically) or does God alone put us into Christ (Monogergistically.)
2) Can we believe all the "right" things sincerely such that God is compelled to save us? Or is salvation by grace?
3) When scripture repeatedly refers to "his" faith or "your" faith, God is referring to our faith in His Christ, as determined by God. It may be little, you of little faith, or it might be large, God decides. Only when God alone determines to credit our faith as righteousness, does God alone place us into Christ.
Saving faith is our faith that God alone credits as righteousness. Synergists wrongly believe if we believe the "right" things, with the "right" intensity, God is compelled to save us. That of course is hogwash. Salvation is by grace. In other words our faith does not earn or merit salvation, it is but a filthy rag to God. He turns our worthless faith into righteousness. Our salvation does not depend on our willingness to be saved, or what we do (works) to be saved, but on God alone. He requires that we believe in the One He sent, but all that accomplishes is to be considered.
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Fine. Just know you have to rob divine descriptors of their real meaning to fit them into your paradigm. That's my point.
My other point is that you cannot escape the conclusion that the reason one person is saved, and another is not, is because one is intrinsically better than another, and Redemption is according to merit, and not election.