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A Biblical Defense of Arminianism #1
- Thread starter Steven Yeadon
- Start date
Fine. Just know you have to rob divine descriptors of their real meaning to fit them into your paradigm. That's my point.
My other point is that you cannot escape the conclusion that the reason one person is saved, and another is not, is because one is intrinsically better than another, and Redemption is according to merit, and not election.
I'm just showing my views are defensible from scripture. That's all.
I do not see the problem of "merit" because the way into the Kingdom is humbling in many ways
1 Corinthians 1:20-21
20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
Your thread addressed the fact that our faith is not works, per Romans 4. I do not believe you have addressed "Synergists wrongly believe if we believe the "right" things, with the "right" intensity, God is compelled to save us."My thread #2 addresses this from the Word. Romans 4 makes clear faith is not a work worthy of a wage.
Your thread addressed the fact that our faith is not works, per Romans 4. I do not believe you have addressed "Synergists wrongly believe if we believe the "right" things, with the "right" intensity, God is compelled to save us."
I think the problem you are having is one of perspective. If God gave us the ability to choose and Called us to choose, the act of choosing is in fact important. However, in the wisdom of God it is not a work deserving salvation. God merely credits us righteousness by the counsel of His own will.
If I may, you seem to think God doing everything to get us to choose, except the actual choosing, is logically impossible. I do not see it that way.
You still are avoiding the issue.I think the problem you are having is one of perspective. If God gave us the ability to choose and Called us to choose, the act of choosing is in fact important. However, in the wisdom of God it is not a work deserving salvation. God merely credits us righteousness by the counsel of His own will.
If I may, you seem to think God doing everything to get us to choose, except the actual choosing, is logically impossible. I do not see it that way.
Did God give us the ability to choose, to will to be saved? Yes, not at issue.
Is putting our trust and devotion in Christ an "important factor?" Yes, as I said, "He requires that we believe in the One He sent, but all that accomplishes is to be considered.
God credits our faith as righteousness.
Now if a person puts their faith in Christ, is the person saved? Nope
Is God required to credit our faith as righteousness? Nope
Does believing all the "right" things with the "right" intensity automatically result in salvation? Nope
Salvation is achieved only when God alone credits our worthless faith as righteousness. Period, full stop.
You still are avoiding the issue.
Did God give us the ability to choose, to will to be saved? Yes, not at issue.
Is putting our trust and devotion in Christ an "important factor?" Yes, as I said, "He requires that we believe in the One He sent, but all that accomplishes is to be considered.
God credits our faith as righteousness.
Now if a person puts their faith in Christ, is the person saved? Nope
Is God required to credit our faith as righteousness? Nope
Does believing all the "right" things with the "right" intensity automatically result in salvation? Nope
Salvation is achieved only when God alone credits our worthless faith as righteousness. Period, full stop.
I'm not dodging the question, as much as, being truthful, I didn't get your point. I think I see now. Yes I agree. We have faith, that doesn't save. It is the merciful response by God to that faith that saves. Abrahams faith did not deserve a covenant without the LORD there actively crediting faith as righteousness. Sorry, just not used to that perspective.
Will those lost in their sin natures ever desire even to get saved, and "turn to Jesus>"I'm not dodging the question, as much as, being truthful, I didn't get your point. I think I see now. Yes I agree. We have faith, that doesn't save. It is the merciful response by God to that faith that saves. Abrahams faith did not deserve a covenant without the LORD there actively crediting faith as righteousness. Sorry, just not used to that perspective.
Will those lost in their sin natures ever desire even to get saved, and "turn to Jesus>"
If God calls them in His mercy and grace.
So you would agree that no lost sinner if left to themselves would turn around and "come to Jesus?"If God calls them in His mercy and grace.
So you would agree that no lost sinner if left to themselves would turn around and "come to Jesus?"
Not without God calling them by the Gospel and having mercy on them, so as not to harden them. Without God's desire to see us saved, we won't be saved. I just believe, from scripture, God's desire is always to see us saved apart from those he hardens to wrath like Pharaoh or Judas Iscariot. However, I do not think he chose to harden them to such from eternity or before birth.