preacher4truth
Active Member
I think I already acknowledged He would die on the cross.
I am simply saying that some believe this serpent HAD to be on a pole, because Jesus died on a cross.
Other than this, I don't get what you are after here.
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A Bronze Snake on a Pole
- Thread starter psalms109:31
- Start date
I think I already acknowledged He would die on the cross.
I am simply saying that some believe this serpent HAD to be on a pole, because Jesus died on a cross.
Other than this, I don't get what you are after here.
Carnal means fleshly so are you saying it was a fleshly depiction of Christ as if Christ on the Cross became Carnal?
If they didn't look upon the serpant on the pole they died, if one doesn't receive Christ who died on a pole (cross) they die the second death. So it is a type of Christ and Salvation shown.
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The lengths folks will go to.
Jn 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Jesus directly compared his crucifixion on the cross to the brass serpent Moses lifted up, so it is pretty ridiculous to argue this story in Numbers does not represent Jesus.
The fiery serpents represent sin. A person who was bitten was infected with poison and would soon die just as the wages of sin is death. But these persons, though they were infected with this poison retained the ability to look upon the brass serpent, and when they did so they were healed and lived.
Num 21:8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.
9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.
Notice that this brass serpent was the cure for "every one" and "any man", not just a few select persons.
Again, it is silly to argue the brass serpent did not represent Christ when Jesus himself directly compared his crucifixion to it.
Jn 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Jesus directly compared his crucifixion on the cross to the brass serpent Moses lifted up, so it is pretty ridiculous to argue this story in Numbers does not represent Jesus.
The fiery serpents represent sin. A person who was bitten was infected with poison and would soon die just as the wages of sin is death. But these persons, though they were infected with this poison retained the ability to look upon the brass serpent, and when they did so they were healed and lived.
Num 21:8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.
9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.
Notice that this brass serpent was the cure for "every one" and "any man", not just a few select persons.
Again, it is silly to argue the brass serpent did not represent Christ when Jesus himself directly compared his crucifixion to it.
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Numbers 21:8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.
Numbers 21:9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.
How can you "make" something out of "brass" and then "set" it on a flag or banner? That doesn't make sense. It was set atop a pole and held up for all to see.
:thumbs::thumbs:
preacher4truth
Active Member
I hear you. I looked into it before your post here.
The Hebrew word is "nace" which is a flag or banner.
How he afixed it to a banner or flag, I have no idea, other than the Biblical definition is flag/banner, and it is used this way elswhere.
"Pole" is misdefined.
"And Moses made a bronze serpent and set it on the standard; and it came about, that if a serpent bit any man, when he looked to the bronze serpent, he lived" Numbers 21:9. (NASB)
I thought you used the NASB? If you would have used this translation, and saw "standard" perhaps you would have questioned the pole theory as I did. I think instead you went to a version where you heard "pole" before, because traditionally this supported what you've always heard, and believed, so you used it instead.
Of course the metal snake could have been a flattened piece of metal in form of a snake of course afixed to a flag or banner.
It didn't necesarrily have to be 3D. - Peace
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I hear you. I looked into it before your post here.
The Hebrew word is "nace" which is a flag or banner.
How he afixed it to a banner or flag, I have no idea, other than the Biblical definition is flag/banner, and it is used this way elswhere.
"Pole" is misdefined.
"And Moses made a bronze serpent and set it on the standard; and it came about, that if a serpent bit any man, when he looked to the bronze serpent, he lived" Numbers 21:9. (NASB)
I thought you used the NASB? If you would have used this translation, and saw "standard" perhaps you would have questioned the pole theory as I did. I think instead you went to a version where you heard "pole" before, because traditionally this supported what you've always heard, and believed, so you used it instead.
Of course the metal snake could have been a flattened piece of metal in form of a snake of course afixed to a flag or banner.
- Peace
Here is strongs:
Strong's Number: 05251 sn
Original Word Word Origin
sn from (05264)
Transliterated Word Phonetic Spelling
Nec nace
Parts of Speech TWOT
Noun Masculine 1379a
Definition
1. something lifted up, standard, signal, signal pole, ensign, banner, sign, sail
a. standard (as rallying point), signal
b. standard (pole)
c. ensign, signal
A signal pole is one of the translations, if it were on the standard it would be fixed to the pole of the standered. Notice b. says standard with (pole). So it is not a mis-translation it just didn't specify the pole of a standard.
I hear you. I looked into it before your post here.
The Hebrew word is "nace" which is a flag or banner.
How he afixed it to a banner or flag, I have no idea, other than the Biblical definition is flag/banner, and it is used this way elswhere.
"Pole" is misdefined.
"And Moses made a bronze serpent and set it on the standard; and it came about, that if a serpent bit any man, when he looked to the bronze serpent, he lived" Numbers 21:9. (NASB)
I thought you used the NASB? If you would have used this translation, and saw "standard" perhaps you would have questioned the pole theory as I did. I think instead you went to a version where you heard "pole" before, because traditionally this supported what you've always heard, and believed, so you used it instead.
Of course the metal snake could have been a flattened piece of metal in form of a snake of course afixed to a flag or banner.
- Peace
What difference would it make? Jesus himself compared his crucifixion to the serpent on a pole. Whatever this serpent was, and whether it was a solid object mounted on a pole, or a flattened piece of brass affixed to a flag or banner, when the people looked in faith, believeing God's promise given to Moses, they were instantly healed.
What is important to note is that they were not healed in order to be able to look in faith, they had to look in faith to be healed. At the time they looked, they were dying from the snakebite. They were poisoned, they were infected, and yet in this ruined state they could look in faith to the brass serpent and only then were they healed and lived.
To make it not on a pole removes the type of Christ from it and that is what a lot of folks don't believe that it is a type. Many don't believe that there are types in the O.T. showing spiritual things in the N.T. To me this is a type of Christ as it is to those who believe in types, while those who don't believe in types will try to explain it away. Whether that is what "preacher4truth" is doing I am not sure.
This also brought to mind the one on the pole conquered the power of the serpant and Christ defeated the serpant (satan) with His death on the Cross and the Ressurection is proof of it. It is just awesome how God reveals His plan in scripture.
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preacher4truth
Active Member
H5251. This word is used elsewhere as a flag, banner. Pole is way at the end of the Hebrew Word definition of nace. It's primary meaning? A flag or a sail. It wasn't simply only a snake on a pole as it sounds like it contained a banner or flag, which I thought was interesting, and seems to be killing a sacred cow in here.
- Peace
Well it could have been a pole taken from a standard and used since they were in the desert since pole can be used. The point is it was a pole of some type.
Remember too that Christ was on a pole (cross) and it had a sign affixed to it so if the standard was on the pole also even a better type of the cruxificition.
I hear you. I looked into it before your post here.
The Hebrew word is "nace" which is a flag or banner.
How he afixed it to a banner or flag, I have no idea, other than the Biblical definition is flag/banner, and it is used this way elswhere.
"Pole" is misdefined.
"And Moses made a bronze serpent and set it on the standard; and it came about, that if a serpent bit any man, when he looked to the bronze serpent, he lived" Numbers 21:9. (NASB)
I thought you used the NASB? If you would have used this translation, and saw "standard" perhaps you would have questioned the pole theory as I did. I think instead you went to a version where you heard "pole" before, because traditionally this supported what you've always heard, and believed, so you used it instead.
Of course the metal snake could have been a flattened piece of metal in form of a snake of course afixed to a flag or banner.
- Peace
Yes, I use the NASB, but I also use KJV and NKJV.
Anyway, the Strongs definition is:
on nec nace
from 5264; a flag; also a sail; by implication, a flagstaff; generally a signal; figuratively, a token:--banner, pole, sail, (en-)sign, standard.
According to Wycliffe Commentary, it was a pole.
Also in my Nelson New Illustrated Bible Dictionary it says "pole".
Nevertheless, it was lifted up between heaven and earth just as Jesus was. It is a clear illustration of Christ's crucifixion.
:laugh: No cow killin' here. I think it's interesting too and something I've never noticed before.
Now I'm off to find out what a standard is.
I had assumed it was a pole, which I shouldn't have without looking it up.preacher4truth
Active Member
Well, my cow got shot! What does your NWT say? :laugh: :thumbsup:
Well, maybe your cow is only wounded. My NWT says cows are sacred and should be worshiped. Or maybe it was my Hindu book of etiquette, can't remember which. :laugh:
I believe it was a solid serpent made of brass mounted on a pole, but I cannot see what difference it would make. Those who would make a big fuss over this are obviously trying to argue away that it was a figure of Christ, which is absurd because Jesus himself compared his crucifixion to this serpent on a pole.
preacher4truth
Active Member
Not even close. Again, you try to put words in my mouth. I am not at all arguing away that it was a figure of Christ. It's simply just how you try to malign someone over something you say they've said, then you roll with it like it's the truth.
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preacher4truth
Active Member
Now I'm craving a ribeye. Is that worshiping cow? :laugh:
Then why the big fuss from you? You insist it was a flag or banner and not a pole. What is the difference?
The problem is that this story overthrows Total Inability and you know it. The people who were bitten and were dying from the serpent bites were ABLE to look to this serpent on a pole and live. They were not regenerated first to be able to look in faith, they were able to look in faith while they were poisoned and dying. It was only AFTER looking in faith that they were healed (the scriptures actually say they LIVED). This healing is regeneration.
I can easily understand why some would try to deny this was a figure of Christ, it is obvious, because it throws a huge monkey wrench in their doctrine.