A Command To Sobriety!

[tinytim]

INCOMING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


kABOOM!

(Tiny peaks out of his hole to see it the thread still exists....)

Ah Man.... Back to the drawing board!

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

2 Timothy 4:3-4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

We certainly are living in the last days. The Strongs Concordance tells us that the word 'sober' does indeed mean

3525. nepho
Search for G3525 in KJVSL
nhjw nepho nay'-fo

of uncertain affinity: to abstain from wine (keep sober), i.e. (figuratively) be discreet:--be sober, watch.

Vines Expository Dictionary of the Greek New Testament gives this definition:

&ltB-1,Verb,3525,nepho>
signifies "to be free from the influence of intoxicants;" in the NT, metaphorically, it does not in itself imply watchfulness, but is used in association with it, 1 Thess. 5:6,8; 2 Tim. 4:5; 1 Pet. 1:13; 4:7, RV (AV, "watch"); 5:8. Cp. eknepho and ananepho, under AWAKE, No. 3 and Note.

We are living in a day when people turn turn their ears from the truth, believing a lie. They call good evil and evil good.

Nepho meant 'abstinence from intoxicating wines' in Paul's day, it still means that today.


Baptist Believer,

You are assigning the word wine as being all alcoholic in the Word of God... it was not.

 

[Baptist Believer]

The Strongs Concordance tells us that the word 'sober' does indeed mean

3525. nepho
Search for G3525 in KJVSL
nhjw nepho nay'-fo
of uncertain affinity: to abstain from wine (keep sober), i.e. (figuratively) be discreet:--be sober, watch.

Yep. The Strong concordance clearly points out that the word is used figuratively. Therefore context tells us what the word means...

Vines Expository Dictionary of the Greek New Testament gives this definition:
&ltB-1,Verb,3525,nepho>
signifies "to be free from the influence of intoxicants;" in the NT, metaphorically, it does not in itself imply watchfulness, but is used in association with it, 1 Thess. 5:6,8; 2 Tim. 4:5; 1 Pet. 1:13; 4:7, RV (AV, "watch"); 5:8. Cp. eknepho and ananepho, under AWAKE, No. 3 and Note.

Yep. The Vines dictionary points out that the word is use metaphorically. Again, context gives us the meaning.

Nepho meant 'abstinence from intoxicating wines' in Paul's day, it still means that today.

Certainly it can mean abstinence from intoxicating wines, but it was also often used figuratively, just like the English word sober is used today.
But let’s use your meaning of the word “Nepho” or in the KJV, “sober”, in the context of scripture to see if you are correct:

1 Timothy 3:1-3

Original
This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

HBSMN Standard Version
This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, [not intoxicated], of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous...

Titus 1:7-9

Original
For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre; But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate; Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

HBSMN Standard Version
For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre; But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, [not intoxicated], just, holy, temperate; Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

Did you notice that both of these descriptions of a good bishop indicate that a bishop is “not given to wine” (that is, in the King James vernacular, “is not addicted to wine”) and that they should be sober (that is, serious-minded and discreet). There would be no reason to mention being “not given to wine” if the word “sober” was not used figuratively in the New Testament.
Furthermore, all the references to the word “sober” that have been given in this thread, by their context, indicate that the word is being used figuratively.

Baptist Believer,

You are assigning the word wine as being all alcoholic in the Word of God...

I’m merely being consistent with the uses of the terminology “wine and strong drink” because that phrase, by the context, indicates intoxicating beverages. If a phrase is used repeatedly (not just a word) in the scripture, it is very likely that is means the same thing every time it is used.

...it was not.

Sure it was. You seem to claim that it couldn’t be because that would make the verses from Proverbs (and your personal position) contradict the whole counsel of scripture. May I suggest to you that you have committed the very understandable error of reading Proverbs as if it had the same authority as the Ten Commandments instead of being a book of general wisdom for God’s people?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Wine and strong drink are either intoxicating or non-intoxicating, depending on the context. Eli thought Hannah had been drinking intoxicating beverage, she assured him she had not.

In Dueteronomy14:26, the wine and strong drink there was not alcoholic, if one goes further in Deuteronomy, one will read that the same people God had told to go and buy wine and strong drink 'whatsoever thy soul lusteth after', were commended by God for not drinking wine or strong drink.

What God was allowing, was not fermented. What they refused, was fermented.

 

[bound]

Wine and strong drink are either intoxicating or non-intoxicating, depending on the context. Eli thought Hannah had been drinking intoxicating beverage, she assured him she had not.

In Dueteronomy14:26, the wine and strong drink there was not alcoholic, if one goes further in Deuteronomy, one will read that the same people God had told to go and buy wine and strong drink 'whatsoever thy soul lusteth after', were commended by God for not drinking wine or strong drink.

What God was allowing, was not fermented. What they refused, was fermented.

How do you make wine without fermentation?

 

[saturneptune]

Both sides of this debate, shut up already, zip it, stuff a sock in it. This subject is enough to drive anyone crazy. How many times you can say it is wrong? OK SFIC and His Blood, now repeat after me, I am against drinking, I am against drinking, now keep repeating that until Cheney becomes President. OK, now Webdog and others repeat after me, I am for drinking, I am for drinking, and repeat that until Jerry Falwell becomes President. Shut up already. Enough to drive someone to drink.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

bound, there are 4 threads that explain the process that was used to make wine without fermentation in Bible days. Do a search on Baptist Board for the word 'amphora'.

Historical figures from hundreds of years before Christ have recorded the process in books.

Joseph was said to have squeezed wine from the grape directly into the Pharaoh's cup. If anyone believes that wine given to Pharaoh by Joseph was fermented, I'll sell you some oceanfront property in Kansas.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

The Word of God is against drinking, the Word of God is against drinking. It matters not what I am against. It is the Word of God.

 

[saturneptune]

The Word of God is against drinking, the Word of God is against drinking. It matters not what I am against. It is the Word of God.

Yes, and in every thread I and others have gone into great detail about why we agree with you. Several times. Time to move on.

 

[bound]

bound, there are 4 threads that explain the process that was used to make wine without fermentation in Bible days. Do a search on Baptist Board for the word 'amphora'.

Isn't it important to know the greek word "oinos" as it is used in the verses with regard to wine?

All I know is The Bible tells us Jesus drank wine (Luke 7:34)--often enough, apparently, that his detractors accused him of being a drunkard. If the wine he drank was not possible to make one intoxicated then I think such an accusation would make no sense.

Now please note that I have often followed your posts with a great deal of respect standingfriminChrist and I'm not bringing this stuff up to antagonize you but to share my issues with such positions.

Thanks.

 

[dan e.]

saturneptune....i was laughing histarically when i read your post. you've convinced me to never respond to another comment on this.
and you're right...i started i arguing that it was okay to drink despite not being a drinker...however i have almost been driven to drinking!!
EVERYONE: WHEN YOU HAVE THE URGE TO CONTINUE POSTING ON THIS....READ SATURNEPTUNE'S POST UNTIL YOU LOSE THAT DESIRE!!! :laugh:

i'm serious...i really thought it was funny.

 

[tinytim]

I will not post... I will not post... I will not post....

Ooops I did it again!!!

Hey, there's a topic...Britney Spears divorce.
I wonder if alcohol was involved? lol

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Isn't it important to know the greek word "oinos" as it is used in the verses with regard to wine?

All I know is The Bible tells us Jesus drank wine (Luke 7:34)--often enough, apparently, that his detractors accused him of being a drunkard. If the wine he drank was not possible to make one intoxicated then I think such an accusation would make no sense.

Now please note that I have often followed your posts with a great deal of respect standingfriminChrist and I'm not bringing this stuff up to antagonize you but to share my issues with such positions.

Thanks.

bound,

The statement Jesus made after being accused in Luke 7 'But wisdom is justified of her children', was His answer to being accused of drinking an alcoholic beverage. He was not drinking alcoholic beverage.

Jesus came to fulfill the law, not to destroy it. Since the Bible tells us it is not for kings to drink wine or strong drink, Jesus knowing the Old Testament writings would not have drank fermented wine.

Jesus was the King of kings. He was King while on this earth, but not in His kingdom. He admitted that in the judgment hall whae He said 'My kingdom is not of the world'. Present tense. He was, He is, and always will be King over a kingdom.

 

[Baptist Believer]

OK, now Webdog and others repeat after me, I am for drinking, I am for drinking, and repeat that until Jerry Falwell becomes President. Shut up already. Enough to drive someone to drink.

I am for moderation, sobriety and not changing the teaching of the scripture to fit our modern presuppositions.

The scripture does not forbid the use of alcoholic beverages. Period. It forbids drunkenness. Period. Jesus was known for drinking wine so much that it was used as an opportunity to claim He was a drunkard. Period. I am an apprentice of Jesus. The Master is above the apprentice in these matters. I dare not condemn Jesus for His example of living.

 

[dan e.]

must not do it..........must not reply to standingfirm.......aauugghhhh:tonofbricks:
i must resist the temptation..........


aahh! i did it. i resisted. :thumbs:

 

[bound]

I am for moderation, sobriety and not changing the teaching of the scripture to fit our modern presuppositions.

The scripture does not forbid the use of alcoholic beverages. Period. It forbids drunkenness. Period. Jesus was known for drinking wine so much that it was used as an opportunity to claim He was a drunkard. Period. I am an apprentice of Jesus. The Master is above the apprentice in these matters. I dare not condemn Jesus for His example of living.

I am in agreement with Baptist Believer on this. The Apostle Paul knew that Wine was 'good' for one's health and suggested it's use. Hyper-Interpretation is just as distorting as Liberal-Interpretation. Moderation in all things is a Biblical Teaching.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Abstinence is not just a Bibleical teaching, it is a command. Consider not, do not approve of, have no experience with, the wine when it is fermented (Proverbs 23:31.

You guys can choose to ignore Biblical commands, I will not. Today, if you will hear His voice, harden not your heart as in the provocation.

He demands to abstain.

 

[saturneptune]

For those of you who remember English class, a congegation of the word to abstain for your enjoyment.

I abstain
You abstain
He abstains
We abstain
You abstain
They abstain

 

[Tom Butler]

Whew! After reading all this, I need a good stiff drink of, uh, grape juice to steady my nerves.

 

[James_Newman]

How do you make wine without fermentation?

Genesis 40:11 And Pharaoh's cup was in my hand: and I took the grapes, and pressed them into Pharaoh's cup, and I gave the cup into Pharaoh's hand.