A False Teaching continued...

[steaver]

The Apostle John wrote, ‘Whoever does not practise righteousness is not of God’ (1John 3:10). It is usual for children to resemble their parents. If a child is born who bears no similarity whatever to its father, eyebrows tend to be raised, suspicions aroused and searching questions asked. So if God is righteous, is it not somewhat surprising if He has given new life to children who retain constant sin in their lives? May we not be a little suspicious of those who claim to be Christians but whose day-to-day existence is marked by carnality and self-indulgence? Now God forbid that anyone should think that I am speaking of sinless perfection here; if there is a reader thinking to himself, “Well, amen to all this! I agree with it so much that I no longer sin at all!” Then he’s fooling himself. John himself wrote, ‘If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us’ (1John 1:8), whilst James tells us that, ‘We all stumble in many ways’ (James 3:2). What we are talking about here is a true longing for holiness; a desire to be like our Lord. We cannot lay hold of Heaven while our hands are still full of our sins. Therefore the true Christian joyfully lays down all his sins at the foot of the cross and declares with the Psalmist, ‘I delight to do Your will, O my God, and Your law is within my heart’ (Psalm 40:8). That is why it is not possible for a practising thief, liar, adulterer or homosexual to be a Christian, whatever they may declare. Anyone who says to himself, “I want to become a Christian, but I won’t stop doing that…”, whatever “that” may be, is on the broad road to destruction (Matt. 7:13). We are told of Levi, the tax collector that he, ‘left all, rose up and followed [Jesus]’ (Luke 5:28). We may or may not be called to leave our jobs or our families when we become Christians, but we are certainly called to leave our sins (John 8:11) even if they are as dear to us as our right hands or right eyes (Matt. 5:29). Alas, perfect sinlessness will still elude us, but when we confess our sins, God looks into our hearts, sees our sincerity and forgives us for Christ’s sake. ‘My little children, these things I write to you, that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ, the Righteous’ (1John 2:1).

Taken from my blog series on the New Birth. Read more here. https://marprelate.wordpress.com/2010/08/29/new-birth-9-evidences-of-the-new-birth/

Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses believe they follow these scriptures as well. Does this prove to themselves they are saved?

 

[DHK]

The Apostle John wrote, ‘Whoever does not practise righteousness is not of God’ (1John 3:10). It is usual for children to resemble their parents. If a child is born who bears no similarity whatever to its father, eyebrows tend to be raised, suspicions aroused and searching questions asked. So if God is righteous, is it not somewhat surprising if He has given new life to children who retain constant sin in their lives? May we not be a little suspicious of those who claim to be Christians but whose day-to-day existence is marked by carnality and self-indulgence? Now God forbid that anyone should think that I am speaking of sinless perfection here; if there is a reader thinking to himself, “Well, amen to all this! I agree with it so much that I no longer sin at all!” Then he’s fooling himself. John himself wrote, ‘If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us’ (1John 1:8), whilst James tells us that, ‘We all stumble in many ways’ (James 3:2). What we are talking about here is a true longing for holiness; a desire to be like our Lord. We cannot lay hold of Heaven while our hands are still full of our sins. Therefore the true Christian joyfully lays down all his sins at the foot of the cross and declares with the Psalmist, ‘I delight to do Your will, O my God, and Your law is within my heart’ (Psalm 40:8). That is why it is not possible for a practising thief, liar, adulterer or homosexual to be a Christian, whatever they may declare. Anyone who says to himself, “I want to become a Christian, but I won’t stop doing that…”, whatever “that” may be, is on the broad road to destruction (Matt. 7:13). We are told of Levi, the tax collector that he, ‘left all, rose up and followed [Jesus]’ (Luke 5:28). We may or may not be called to leave our jobs or our families when we become Christians, but we are certainly called to leave our sins (John 8:11) even if they are as dear to us as our right hands or right eyes (Matt. 5:29). Alas, perfect sinlessness will still elude us, but when we confess our sins, God looks into our hearts, sees our sincerity and forgives us for Christ’s sake. ‘My little children, these things I write to you, that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ, the Righteous’ (1John 2:1).

Taken from my blog series on the New Birth. Read more here. https://marprelate.wordpress.com/2010/08/29/new-birth-9-evidences-of-the-new-birth/

There is not one of the apostles that did not write about the danger of false teachers who go into the churches as angels of light and ministers of righteousness deceiving the people. They existed in Corinth, and many of the Corinthians began to follow them and their teachings over and above Paul--rejecting Paul for the teachings of false teachers. It happens. False teachers can give all the evidences that you speak of. Jesus himself warned about them.

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

They will claim to do the same works as a pastor or any other leader in the church. Most of the congregation won't be able to tell the difference.

As an example, I heard from a friend yesterday of a man who was pastoring a church for a number of years in another area (not in the province I live). He was a Baptist pastor of a good church. Now he has a secular job, goes to the bars, and doesn't care much about the Christian life.
How can that be? He gave the same kind of testimony that both you and SG gave. But he only followed it for a certain number of years. Then something changed. I don't know what happened. I can't tell you.

Just saying "I am one of the elect," or "God chose me." is not good enough.
Sadly, some think it is.

 

[Yeshua1]

I disagree.

Of course you are speaking of divine love--the love that God bestows upon us, and that God gives Christians. This is another subject.

That does not mean that man does not have the capacity to love on some level, even on a great level. Read history. How many times have I read of soldiers who have thrown themselves on a land mine sacrificing their life for the lives of fellow soldiers. I have read of husbands throwing themselves in front of a barrage of bullets just to save their wife and children. That is love.
One of the greatest examples of love demonstrated to this world by an unsaved RCC nun was by Mother Theresa. She worked tirelessly giving love and devotion for those children who were outcasts, loving the unloveable, the outcasts of India--the lepers. She did what most "born again" Baptists who claim to possess the divine love of God would never do. Love is action. It is a selfless sacrifice of one's time and energy on behalf of others. That is what Mother Theresa did. She sacrificed her time, her energy on behalf of others. She loved.

What she could not do is love God supremely for she lacked a personal relationship with him, but she could love.
Like faith, love has an object.
The rich young ruler went away sad, for he loved his riches more than he loved God.


Sometimes we take Scripture out of context.
If I speak from my own testimony, I was saved when I was 20. I don't ever remember a time in my life when "I hated God." I was a devout RCC, often wanting to know the truth about God. But I don't ever remember hating God.
I was separated from God by my sin. I needed to be reconciled to God--my greatest need.
That men love darkness rather than light, is a general statement of mankind, not an absolute statement of every man. It wasn't a statement that described Cornelius, was it?

Of course, that is what the Bible says about His children. We are in a unique relationship with Him. How can it be any other way.

That doesn't mean that God loves any less the "world," that his love for the world in general was not deficient in any way. His blood was still shed so that any person is able to come to Christ, no one excepted.

God as the Creator of all people would love us all, but there is also a love towards those who are the saved and redemned in Christ, the ones to whom God chose to show a particular kindness and mercy towards...

It would be like I can love my friends, but my own family get "special love"

 

[DHK]

God as the Creator of all people would love us all, but there is also a love towards those who are the saved and redemned in Christ, the ones to whom God chose to show a particular kindness and mercy towards...

It would be like I can love my friends, but my own family get "special love"

First it is difficult, perhaps impossible, for a finite mind to comprehend the love of an infinite God. Therefore human comparisons will always fall short.
Second, though God's love for the unsaved is infinite and beyond comparison and comprehension, remember that you also were once an enemy of God, estranged, an outcast, and doomed to hell. He died for you as he died for others. It is not that you were of "the elect," but rather that you accepted his gift. Others rejected it.
He came to "seek and to save the lost."

 

[Yeshua1]

First it is difficult, perhaps impossible, for a finite mind to comprehend the love of an infinite God. Therefore human comparisons will always fall short.
Second, though God's love for the unsaved is infinite and beyond comparison and comprehension, remember that you also were once an enemy of God, estranged, an outcast, and doomed to hell. He died for you as he died for others. It is not that you were of "the elect," but rather that you accepted his gift. Others rejected it.
He came to "seek and to save the lost."

Except there is NOTHING in me that would allow me to accept jesus, as being in ny sin nature, needed the Holy Spirit himself to enable me to even be able to do that!

 

[Yeshua1]

There is not one of the apostles that did not write about the danger of false teachers who go into the churches as angels of light and ministers of righteousness deceiving the people. They existed in Corinth, and many of the Corinthians began to follow them and their teachings over and above Paul--rejecting Paul for the teachings of false teachers. It happens. False teachers can give all the evidences that you speak of. Jesus himself warned about them.

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

They will claim to do the same works as a pastor or any other leader in the church. Most of the congregation won't be able to tell the difference.

As an example, I heard from a friend yesterday of a man who was pastoring a church for a number of years in another area (not in the province I live). He was a Baptist pastor of a good church. Now he has a secular job, goes to the bars, and doesn't care much about the Christian life.
How can that be? He gave the same kind of testimony that both you and SG gave. But he only followed it for a certain number of years. Then something changed. I don't know what happened. I can't tell you.

Just saying "I am one of the elect," or "God chose me." is not good enough.
Sadly, some think it is.

Any one who taught that would be really wrong, as the Bible tells us that if we are the elect, we can know that by love for God and the bethren, to desire to please and follow God, read the bible and pray and obey it!

 

[DHK]

Except there is NOTHING in me that would allow me to accept jesus, as being in ny sin nature, needed the Holy Spirit himself to enable me to even be able to do that!

Theological gibberish. What is stopping you? Nothing but Satan and Calvin.

What stopped the Philippian jailor? Nothing.
What stopped the Ethiopian eunuch? Nothing.
What stopped 3,000 on the Day of Pentecost? Nothing.

It may be noted that thought the conviction of the Holy Spirit came both on the Day of Pentecost and in Acts 7 at the preaching of Stephen, those who were convicted most, were those that refused and resisted the Holy Spirit. They were the ones that dragged Stephen out of the city and stoned him to death. There was nothing stopping others from being saved.

 

[DHK]

Any one who taught that would be really wrong, as the Bible tells us that if we are the elect, we can know that by love for God and the bethren, to desire to please and follow God, read the bible and pray and obey it!

I don't have to do that. I am 100% certain, beyond any shadow of any doubt, that if I should die this moment I would go straight to heaven. I have that assurance.

But how do you know you are one of the elect?

 

[Yeshua1]

Theological gibberish. What is stopping you? Nothing but Satan and Calvin.

What stopped the Philippian jailor? Nothing.
What stopped the Ethiopian eunuch? Nothing.
What stopped 3,000 on the Day of Pentecost? Nothing.

It may be noted that thought the conviction of the Holy Spirit came both on the Day of Pentecost and in Acts 7 at the preaching of Stephen, those who were convicted most, were those that refused and resisted the Holy Spirit. They were the ones that dragged Stephen out of the city and stoned him to death. There was nothing stopping others from being saved.

The scriptures teach plainly that we are ALL sinners, whose very natures are at war against God, and that left to ourselves, we would stay as lost!

ONLY when the Holy Spirit quickens and enables us will we even desire, much less will indeed come unto jesus to get saved!

What was inherit in you that wanted and did respond to God then?

 

[DHK]

The scriptures teach plainly that we are ALL sinners, whose very natures are at war against God, and that left to ourselves, we would stay as lost!

ONLY when the Holy Spirit quickens and enables us will we even desire, much less will indeed come unto jesus to get saved!

What was inherit in you that wanted and did respond to God then?

Some of what you say is true. Some isn't.
Where does the scripture say, that if one is left to himself, he would stay lost.

Did you know that Hudson Taylor "was left to himself."
His mother went out. He was alone in the house. Beside him was some reading material along with some tracts. He decided (against all Calvinistic teaching) to pick up a tract and read it. He (against all Calvinistic teaching) understood what the tract was teaching (the gospel message based on the efficacy of the blood of Christ). Then and there he was convicted of his need for Christ and trusted Christ as his Savior (against all Calvinistic teaching). He also became one of the world's greatest missionary spreading the gospel to the lost in China (against much or many Calvinistic teaching--but not all).

Yes, Hudson Taylor "was left to himself," and God did great things.
That shoots your theology doesn't it?

 

[Protestant]

Where does the scripture say, that if one is left to himself, he would stay lost.

Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.

 

[vooks]

Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.

And you are part of that remnant right?

 

[Rippon]

And you are part of that remnant right?

All true Christians are. Do you doubt you're a part of it?

 

[DHK]

Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.

A non sequitur. It doesn't answer the question.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Just saying "I am one of the elect," or "God chose me." is not good enough.

Is that what you think I wrote? :BangHead: Did you actually trouble to read it?

 

[DHK]

Is that what you think I wrote? :BangHead: Did you actually trouble to read it?

Of course I read it. I gave you a detailed answer which you did not bother to answer. Isn't that typical?
Secondly, your answer avoided the real crux of the question. Instead of answering the question you described the Christian walk.

I answered you how many have pretended to walk the Christian walk in such a way that they have fooled the elect, and for a good number of years. In that way your answer is not convincing.

Thus I ask you again: Having avoided the real question:
How can you know that you are one of the elect?
Do you really have any assurance that you are one of the elect?

 

[SovereignGrace]

Of course I read it. I gave you a detailed answer which you did not bother to answer. Isn't that typical?
Secondly, your answer avoided the real crux of the question. Instead of answering the question you described the Christian walk.

I answered you how many have pretended to walk the Christian walk in such a way that they have fooled the elect, and for a good number of years. In that way your answer is not convincing.

Thus I ask you again: Having avoided the real question:
How can you know that you are one of the elect?
Do you really have any assurance that you are one of the elect?

You stated in an earlier post you know without a doubt that you would go to heaven, and I say 'hallelujah'!! I can say the same thing, monsieur. You will probably ask, "How can I know I am one of the elect?", though. :tear:

I believe in what you call a 'damnable heresy', which is limited atonement. Now, can anyone who believes a 'damnable heresy' be saved, mon ami? No deflection, just a 'yes or no' will work.

 

[Protestant]

A non sequitur. It doesn't answer the question.

To many professing Christians the entire Bible is a non sequitur because in their minds an all-wise, all-powerful, all-loving God cannot accomplish that which He purposed: to actually save the world that He loves.

Our Pelagian/Arminian/non-Cal friends find this of no great concern.

PS The Scripture cited does answer the question. The problem is not with the Scripture, but with the reader.

 

[DHK]

You stated in an earlier post you know without a doubt that you would go to heaven, and I say 'hallelujah'!! I can say the same thing, monsieur. You will probably ask, "How can I know I am one of the elect?", though. :tear:

I believe in what you call a 'damnable heresy', which is limited atonement. Now, can anyone who believes a 'damnable heresy' be saved, mon ami? No deflection, just a 'yes or no' will work.

You misquote me. I didn't say that. Peter did.
But I did explain it.

 

[DHK]

To many professing Christians the entire Bible is a non sequitur because in their minds an all-wise, all-powerful, all-loving God cannot accomplish that which He purposed: to actually save the world that He loves.

Our Pelagian/Arminian/non-Cal friends find this of no great concern.

PS The Scripture cited does answer the question. The problem is not with the Scripture, but with the reader.

Where does the Scripture say "if one is left to himself he will remain lost"?
Give your answer and demonstrate its relevance.