A KJ-Only church.

[Yeshua1]

Not if I thought he was learning his weird doctrines from that church. However, I doubt he is because he has opined that he has a special ministry from God to harass people who believe the words of scripture, opting for an authority for themselves from languages they cannot read. He is the second biggest hypocrite who posts here claiming a ministry like this and failing to produce a biblical teaching that God cannot and will not preserve his scriptures in translation while insisting ad nauseum that I produce a scriptural argument for mine.

Wrap your head around this claim. God has equipped him to condemn people who believe God after God has said he will send unbelievers to the lake of fire, which is the second death? What kind of sense does this claim make to you?

Which has the final authority, the Kjv or the hebrew and greek texts?

 

[Yeshua1]

MMRRPP ! WRONG !
I'm definitely IFB. My church doesn't follow nor believe any man-made doctrines of faith/worship, including the KJVO myth. OTOH, you seem to be in thrall to that myth. And our church believes all the other things you mentioned, & so do I. That's why I joined it.

And who said I or my church uses the NIV? We use mostly the NKJV and NASV We believe in baptism by immersion in water, for those who are saved, not for babies, nor by sprinkling. We practice the foot-washing ceremony twice a year, & Communion every 2 months, with bread & grape juice, as close to what Jesus did at the "Last Supper" as possible. Our pastor preaches hell fire & brimstone, something sorely lacking in many churches today.

Your KJVO myth is entirely man-made & phony as a Ford Corvette. Its origin & other reasons why it's false, besides its total lack of Scriptural support, are explained in other forums. God has caused His word in English to be translated into CURRENT English, as He's allowed/caused the language to change, same as He's done in other languages.(John of Japan & friends are making a modern Japanese Bible translation, for example.)

So, any church which follows the false KJVO myth has at least one false doctrine in its makeup, and your judgment of me is simply wrong, distorted by your thralldom to the KJVO myth.

except for foot washing, seems pretty Baptist to me!

 

[robycop3]

Not if I thought he was learning his weird doctrines from that church. However, I doubt he is because he has opined that he has a special ministry from God to harass people who believe the words of scripture, opting for an authority for themselves from languages they cannot read. He is the second biggest hypocrite who posts here claiming a ministry like this and failing to produce a biblical teaching that God cannot and will not preserve his scriptures in translation while insisting ad nauseum that I produce a scriptural argument for mine.

Wrap your head around this claim. God has equipped him to condemn people who believe God after God has said he will send unbelievers to the lake of fire, which is the second death? What kind of sense does this claim make to you?

Your thralldom & addiction to the KJVO myth has warped your mind. You keep saying falsehoods about me, none of which you can begin to prove. I don't have a ministry, for one thing, and I believe & follow Scripture , likely more than you. have you forgotten that LYING is a sin? And you need to realize that your gossip is lying as much as saying a hippo can fly.

You evidently ignore:

Matt. 15:9 And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”

1 Tim. 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to ]b[deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,[/b]

Hebrews 13:9Do not be carried about with various and strange doctrines. For it is good that the heart be established by grace, not with foods which have not profited those who have been occupied with them.

 

[robycop3]

except for foot washing, seems pretty Baptist to me!

What's non-Baptist about foot washing? Here's why we do it:
John 13:14If I then, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another’s feet.

 

[Yeshua1]

What's non-Baptist about foot washing? Here's why we do it:
John 13:14If I then, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another’s feet.

You are free to do that, just do not see it as a third ordinance!

 

[thomas15]

Do you promise? We practice the command in Romans 16 on people like you..we are not just KJV only but we are also dispensational pre-millennial pre-trib rapture and accept the biblical teaching that our Lord Jesus Christ is a Jew and that his bible is a Jewish book.

There is no other way to define a fundamentalist. You keep your westernized and feminist NIV but don’t try to pass it off as truth to people who know better. Fundamentalists are bible believers who accept that some doctrines are essential to the faith. You are definitely not one.

It is possible to be a fundamentalist in the faith, hold to all that you believe, and add to that a belief in the inerrancy, the Verbal Plenary Inspiration of Scripture, take a literal approach to the Bible interpretation and not be KJVO. I see in close study of NASB, NKJV, NIV and so forth dispensational pre-mil and pre-trib doctrine and if there is someone currently on this board that is more of a critic of reformed covenant theology with all it's AMIL leanings who is a defender of dispensationalism please identify that person to me because it's very lonely behind my keyboard.

The King James is an English translation of the Greek and Hebrew Scriptures. Most of the time when the NT quotes the OT, it quotes the LXX, itself a translation from Hebrew to Greek.

That doesn't mean that all modern translations make good translation decisions, it also doesn't mean that the KJV translaters did the same. Most of us are currently living in a society where it is both legal and economical to own multiple Bible translations and multiple commentaries and reference resources to enhance our study of the Holy Word.

 

[JD731]

KJVO is not an essential doctrine of the faith once and for all delivered!

Tell that to robycop3. He does not know it and he is somehow threatened by a non existent strawman he has created in his own mind and is using as an excuse for being obnoxious.

 

[robycop3]

Tell that to robycop3. He does not know it and he is somehow threatened by a non existent strawman he has created in his own mind and is using as an excuse for being obnoxious.

The KJVO myth is simply downright false, no two ways about it. And I know many who use the KJV without subscribing to the KJVO myth.

 

[thomas15]

So if you took your Nkjv to church, none would bother you about it?

That is a good question. I really don't know. I doubt anyone would at this point would say anything to me directly. I have always in the past taken a copy of the translation that is used in the pulpit with me on Sunday so I don't know that I would change that procedure just to stir the pot but it is a good question you ask.

About 16 years ago the first time I went there I took my 1986 NIV Study Bible with me not knowing and someone said something to me then. Literally no one there now would remember that incident and I'm at least semi-established there at this point so the question in my particular case becomes one appearing to be trying to get a reaction for reactions sake. Back 16 years ago there were dresses on ladies and jackets and ties on men, that is no longer the rule of thumb. I see t-shirts and exposed tattoos in the auditorium these days so having a NKJV with me might seem a trivial matter.

The big question for me is where do I fit in in this assembly? Doctrine/Gospel and attitude towards the Word of God are to my liking. I have been like many here involved up to my eyeballs in a church then to have a scandal or split with all it's unpleasantness upset things that is what I worry about. Gun shy I think best describes it.

 

[Yeshua1]

That is a good question. I really don't know. I doubt anyone would at this point would say anything to me directly. I have always in the past taken a copy of the translation that is used in the pulpit with me on Sunday so I don't know that I would change that procedure just to stir the pot but it is a good question you ask.

About 16 years ago the first time I went there I took my 1986 NIV Study Bible with me not knowing and someone said something to me then. Literally no one there now would remember that incident and I'm at least semi-established there at this point so the question in my particular case becomes one appearing to be trying to get a reaction for reactions sake. Back 16 years ago there were dresses on ladies and jackets and ties on men, that is no longer the rule of thumb. I see t-shirts and exposed tattoos in the auditorium these days so having a NKJV with me might seem a trivial matter.

The big question for me is where do I fit in in this assembly? Doctrine/Gospel and attitude towards the Word of God are to my liking. I have been like many here involved up to my eyeballs in a church then to have a scandal or split with all it's unpleasantness upset things that is what I worry about. Gun shy I think best describes it.

If you fell comfortable being there and are maturing and growing that is good, just find many times KJV just have a bad attitude towards"outsiders" not into the Kjv as they are!

 

[thomas15]

If you fell comfortable being there and are maturing and growing that is good, just find many times KJV just have a bad attitude towards"outsiders" not into the Kjv as they are!

I'm starting to think that maybe I should start to think about becoming a member. I've been involved in work days and a few fellowships, just this week went to a handgun fellowship, had a nice time. I have been a competitive handgun shooter for many years so shooting firearms is something I do literally all the time so there is no magic in that but it is nice to see people outside of Sunday morning.

This summer was the third year I have participated in a charity bicycle ride which raises funds to support the families of first responders in Eastern PA and Southern NJ killed in the line of duty. This is a very big event, 2500+ riders and covers 65 miles Philly to Atlantic City NJ. The riders pay an entry fee then have to raise additional funds, a minimum of $200 I live on the very far reaches of the area that benefits from this event but my "team" which is local is a major $$$ raiser. My team raises about $70K every year, this year the event raised over a million dollars in a one day event.

Anyway, I'm fairly decent at getting people to support me for this cause but I was hesitant to ask the pastor if it would be OK to ask individuals in the church to support me as this is a secular thing. For months I batted this around in my head not sure if it was even worth asking. Finally one day I asked and to make a long story short the church turned out to be my biggest single donation over $400 and were very encouraging.

 

[JD731]

It is possible to be a fundamentalist in the faith, hold to all that you believe, and add to that a belief in the inerrancy, the Verbal Plenary Inspiration of Scripture, take a literal approach to the Bible interpretation and not be KJVO. I see in close study of NASB, NKJV, NIV and so forth dispensational pre-mil and pre-trib doctrine and if there is someone currently on this board that is more of a critic of reformed covenant theology with all it's AMIL leanings who is a defender of dispensationalism please identify that person to me because it's very lonely behind my keyboard.

The King James is an English translation of the Greek and Hebrew Scriptures. Most of the time when the NT quotes the OT, it quotes the LXX, itself a translation from Hebrew to Greek.

That doesn't mean that all modern translations make good translation decisions, it also doesn't mean that the KJV translaters did the same. Most of us are currently living in a society where it is both legal and economical to own multiple Bible translations and multiple commentaries and reference resources to enhance our study of the Holy Word.

The testimony of men is given in their own words about their own beliefs and experiences as we one on one witness to the goodness and grace of God and by it we can persuade men to trust in God as their savior even without a bible present. However, the testimony of God is far more exact and requires a written testimony seeing as how God is not presently with us in the physical. Also, there is more about God than just being saved from the penalty of our sins. He has an infinite mind and he does not think like we do. Knowing the deep things of God requires the words he has chosen for the Spirit to teach the believer and who desires to know him more intimately. This is the argument that is laid out in 1 Cor 1-3.

There is a correlation between the proliferation of new bible versions right here in the end of the age and the prophesy that the end of this age will be characterized by a great apostasy and a falling away from truth.

Most of the time when the NT quotes the OT, it quotes the LXX, itself a translation from Hebrew to Greek.

Hearsay. You cannot prove this. It is (misinformation) you have bought into.

I see in close study of NASB, NKJV, NIV and so forth dispensational pre-mil and pre-trib doctrine and if there is someone currently on this board that is more of a critic of reformed covenant theology with all it's AMIL leanings who is a defender of dispensationalism please identify that person to me because it's very lonely behind my keyboard.

These bibles you referenced used different philosophies in translation styles and did not translate the same texts. An out and out lie will deceive no one, and if anyone knows that, it is the master deceiver, Satan. You are being duped.

Most people posting here, and yea, most Christians everywhere, are under the false impression that God wants everyone to understand his word and they are using a fleshly expedient to help God reach that goal. That is writing a bunch of bibles with different words, even deciding among themselves which words are not even needed and then leaving them out.The only doctrine in the scriptures that God has made so simple that even a child can understand it is the saving gospel of Jesus Christ. He even said that unless one becomes as a little child they could not enter the kingdom of God. Thank God for the simplicity in that.

However, this whole age is purposely characterized by "mystery" by God himself and these mysteries are revealed to those only who possess his Spirit and his words and have bowed the knee to him in simple faith.That is what God says.This puts you on the wrong side of this argument. I am not guessing about this. I have Jesus Christ saying it right out.You, of course are programmed to oppose straight talk from the scriptures.

Matt 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

Matthew 11:25
At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

1 Cor 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Salvation through Christ is not a mystery and is not the subject of this discourse. One thing is sure, no one knew it before this because it was hidden from former ages and revealed now. The mystery is the church of Jesus Christ which God is forming in this age, the church that is founded on the Jewish foundation and is built upon the confession of faith in Christ, who is the chief cornerstone, and framed by both Jew and gentile believers and capped by Jesus Christ, the first and the last, the beginning and the ending, Amen.

So, according to what follows concerning this is the revelation that understanding requires first the Spirit of God;

1 Cor 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

And through the words the Spirit has chosen.

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but (in the words) which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

1 Cor 4:1 Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.
2 Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.

1 Cor 3:1 For this cause (The cause is stated in the previous chapter at the end) I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

You will need all these words to understand this mystery. The Spirit gave the revelation of the mystery to Paul and Paul gave the words to us and the Spirit who lives in us will teach us through these same words.

The arrogance of a bunch of bible translators who has the audacity to edit God with dynamic equivalence and thus blind men to wonderful truths that God would teach them if they had his words! These translators are not the friend of you or God and are false prophets, IMO.
___________________________________________________

And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.

 

[JD731]

Which has the final authority, the Kjv or the hebrew and greek texts?

If you are asking what is my final authority I would say it is the KJV. Each individual must decide what he will believe. I cannot read Hebrew or Greek. I can read English.

However, having said that, my study over the years has been to compare the words in the KJV to Greek and Hebrew lexicons and dictionaries. But the scriptures are not separate and isolated words. God builds doctrines through his words and a way of self confirmation into his scriptures. Comparison of the words for a complete understanding of doctrines is essential. There are all kinds of similitudes and figures and types that ride upon the vehicles of words for 6000 years and each use opens up more truth.

From my studies I have determined that the KJV is a compilation of the words in the texts from which they were translated and are the words that God would have spoken if he had given his words in English.

This may or may not be what other KJV believers would say. I speak only for myself.

 

[JD731]

The KJVO myth is simply downright false, no two ways about it. And I know many who use the KJV without subscribing to the KJVO myth.

Using it and believing it can be two different things.

 

[JD731]

Often touted to be so. But there are no such explicit teaching found in the written word of God. None.

How do you know this?

 

[JD731]

MMRRPP ! WRONG !

Your KJVO myth is entirely man-made & phony as a Ford Corvette.

Its origin & other reasons why it's false, besides its total lack of Scriptural support, are explained in other forums. God has caused His word in English to be translated into CURRENT English

Okay, if I have a total lack of scriptural support, making me a phony, let's see the scriptural support for your claim of what God has done. You are the phony one in this room.

 

[kyredneck]

The Living Bible is special.

"The Living Bible (TLB or LB) is a personal paraphrase, not a translation, of the Bible in English by Kenneth N. Taylor and first published in 1971. Taylor used the American Standard Version of 1901 as his base text.[1]...

...the Living Bible contains "venturesome interpretations that no scholar is likely to approve" and that "n several places Taylor brazenly wrests the scripture so as to conform it to Arminian teachings about salvation." The complaints of Arminian bias in the text from Christians were so numerous that it prompted the publisher, Zondervan, to commission the New Living Translation.[8]..."

The Living Bible - Wikipedia

 

[JD731]

So if you took your Nkjv to church, none would bother you about it?

Here is a bible command that God observes in his church.

1 Cor 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

Why would someone join a KJV church who does not judge it the way the church judges it? Who would be violating this command, the church or the shadow Christian?

 

[thomas15]

The testimony of men is given in their own words about their own beliefs and experiences as we one on one witness to the goodness and grace of God and by it we can persuade men to trust in God as their savior even without a bible present. However, the testimony of God is far more exact and requires a written testimony seeing as how God is not presently with us in the physical. Also, there is more about God than just being saved from the penalty of our sins. He has an infinite mind and he does not think like we do. Knowing the deep things of God requires the words he has chosen for the Spirit to teach the believer and who desires to know him more intimately. This is the argument that is laid out in 1 Cor 1-3.

There is a correlation between the proliferation of new bible versions right here in the end of the age and the prophesy that the end of this age will be characterized by a great apostasy and a falling away from truth.



Hearsay. You cannot prove this. It is (misinformation) you have bought into.



These bibles you referenced used different philosophies in translation styles and did not translate the same texts. An out and out lie will deceive no one, and if anyone knows that, it is the master deceiver, Satan. You are being duped.

Most people posting here, and yea, most Christians everywhere, are under the false impression that God wants everyone to understand his word and they are using a fleshly expedient to help God reach that goal. That is writing a bunch of bibles with different words, even deciding among themselves which words are not even needed and then leaving them out.The only doctrine in the scriptures that God has made so simple that even a child can understand it is the saving gospel of Jesus Christ. He even said that unless one becomes as a little child they could not enter the kingdom of God. Thank God for the simplicity in that.

However, this whole age is purposely characterized by "mystery" by God himself and these mysteries are revealed to those only who possess his Spirit and his words and have bowed the knee to him in simple faith.That is what God says.This puts you on the wrong side of this argument. I am not guessing about this. I have Jesus Christ saying it right out.You, of course are programmed to oppose straight talk from the scriptures.

Matt 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

Matthew 11:25
At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

1 Cor 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Salvation through Christ is not a mystery and is not the subject of this discourse. One thing is sure, no one knew it before this because it was hidden from former ages and revealed now. The mystery is the church of Jesus Christ which God is forming in this age, the church that is founded on the Jewish foundation and is built upon the confession of faith in Christ, who is the chief cornerstone, and framed by both Jew and gentile believers and capped by Jesus Christ, the first and the last, the beginning and the ending, Amen.

So, according to what follows concerning this is the revelation that understanding requires first the Spirit of God;

1 Cor 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

And through the words the Spirit has chosen.

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but (in the words) which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

1 Cor 4:1 Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.
2 Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.

1 Cor 3:1 For this cause (The cause is stated in the previous chapter at the end) I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

You will need all these words to understand this mystery. The Spirit gave the revelation of the mystery to Paul and Paul gave the words to us and the Spirit who lives in us will teach us through these same words.

The arrogance of a bunch of bible translators who has the audacity to edit God with dynamic equivalence and thus blind men to wonderful truths that God would teach them if they had his words! These translators are not the friend of you or God and are false prophets, IMO.
___________________________________________________

And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.

And nowhere in all these words do you show any proof that the TR or the KJV is the actual word for word that Jehovah intended man to have to understand His ways.

Question: Why?
Answer: Because it does not exist.

 

[robycop3]

Using it and believing it can be two different things.

There are parts of the KJV that are non-believable, such as "Easter" in Acts 12:4 & "the love of money is THE root of ALL evil" in 1 Tim. 6:10.