Originally posted by Daniel David:
Oldreg, when I said I could reproduce quotes about a 1000 year reign, I was talking about the Fathers.
Daniel David:
I can't read your mind, however, I should have guessed what you meant since you said in an earlier post:
"I can trace my beliefs to the disciples of John." In response I stated that I trace my beliefs back to Jesus Christ. Show me some Scripture that talks about a 1000 year reign on this earth.
Originally posted by Daniel David:
Further, I know Christ's kingdom is eternal. That doesn't preclude the first 1,000 years of that reign on the earth to be marked off prior to the rest of the time.
Since thare is no time in eternity to speak of 1000 years is meaningless!
Originally posted by Daniel David:
When you say there are no scriptures supporting the idea of a 1,000 year reign on earth, I know you are simply deceiving yourself.
Well Daniel David if I am "deceiving myself" then you should have an obligation to enlighten me. You have been prolific in your quotes or remarks from the Early Church Fathers why not present some from the Bible?
Originally posted by Daniel David:
Again, in Revelation 5:10, saints already in heaven are looking forward to reigning upon the earth. Get that? Reigning upon the earth. Get that? Reigning upon the earth.
They will be reigning on the New Earth
in the regeneration. You really don't need to holler Daniel David.
Originally posted by Daniel David:
I only repeat myself becuase amills lack good thinking skills. Hopefully repitition will aid them.
You only repeat yourself because you have nothing else to say. Furthermore, you always repeat yourself like a
spoiled child.
Originally posted by Daniel David:
Then, right after John mentions the return of Christ, he talks about him reigning with saints for how long? That is right, a 1,000 years.
Daniel David, please read the passage from Revelation 20 in proper context.
When was Satan bound? Scripture tells us that He was bound, that is limited in power, through the ministry, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, as shown in the following paragraphs.
After Jesus Christ had healed a man who was possessed by a demon [Matthew 12:22-29] He was accused by the Pharisees of casting out demons through the power of Beelzebub. Jesus responds that if Satan casts out demons he is at war with himself and cannot survive. He concludes as follows:
Matthew 12:29, KJV
29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
Jesus notes that in order for a person to enter a strong mans house and spoil his goods [cast out demons] he must first bind the strong man [Satan].
A second example of the limitations placed on the power of Satan is recorded in the Gospel of Luke. Seventy disciples had been sent out by twos [Luke 10:1] to announce the Kingdom of God [Luke 10:9]. The seventy returned proclaiming [Luke 10:17]:
Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. The reply of Jesus Christ [Luke 10:18]:
I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. Demons were subject to the disciples through the name of Jesus Christ. The reply of Jesus need not be taken literally. The victory of the disciples over demons was a prelude to the victory of Jesus Christ over Satan symbolically attributed to Michael and his angels {Revelation 12:7-11].
After the triumphal entry of Jesus Christ into Jerusalem while He was teaching of His coming death the audible voice of God the Father was heard from heaven [John 12:28]. Jesus then remarks:
John 12:30-32, KJV
30 Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.
31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me.
Jesus is declaring that through His death and resurrection Satan will be judged and cast out as prince of this world. He further declares that through His death and resurrection all mankind, not just Jews, would be drawn to Him. Again we see that Satan’s power to deceive mankind [the nations] is limited. Further evidence of the limitations on Satan’s power is shown in the command of Jesus Christ to the Apostles after His resurrection:
Matthew 28:19,20, KJV
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.
The preaching of the Gospel to the nations means that Satan is no longer given free reign to deceive them. Satan is unable to stop the spread of the Gospel.
The Apostle Paul writes in the letter to the Hebrews:
Hebrews 2:14, KJV
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Jesus Christ triumphed over Satan in His life and in His death because the grave could not hold Him [Acts 2:23, 24]. The above passages speak of the defeat of Satan as an accomplished fact, which it is. However, his ultimate destruction awaits the return of Jesus Christ.
In order to understand what the passage Revelation 20:1-10 is telling us we must recogonize it as a
recapitulation of events that occur between the two conings of jesus Christ. We see a similar literary style in Revelation 12:1-6 where we see a recapitulation of the birth of Jesus Christ and Satans attempts to destroy Him.
That being said we only need to examine Revelation 20:4.
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Please notice that in this passage of Scripture the Apostle John sees souls,
the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands. Note that he does not see bodies but souls. Should one ask how John sees souls, recall that this is a vision, John sees what God chooses. Now it is true that in Scripture the word soul is often used to refer to living people, for example: in Acts 2:41 three thousand souls were added to the church, in Acts 27:37 there were three hundred and seventy six souls on the ship carrying Paul to Rome. In these passages souls is used as a figure on speech. However the context in Revelation 20:4 is different in that the word souls is not used as a figure of speech but refers to distinct entities apart from their associated physical bodies, i.e.,
the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus. The souls that John sees are of those of deceased Saints. In Revelation 6:9-11 the Apostle John also writes of the souls of deceased believers as distinct entities apart from their associated physical bodies.
The 1000 years simply represents the time between the two comings of Jesus Christ
Originally posted by Daniel David:
As for Matthew 19:28, that has to be the absolute worst job I have ever seen. That was almost funny, if it wasn't so tragic that you would actually come up with that stuff.
Well, Surprise, Surprise. You harped on this passage so long that I thought you would have an explanation [I won't call it exegesis] already prepared to refute any response but
all you can do is criticize, not one word to refute anything I said. Actually Daniel David I am not surprised, I got just what I expected. I can't recall that you have posted one passage of Scripture to support your beliefs.
Originally posted by Daniel David:
It isn't a difficult passage unless one is amill and realizes how that one text smacks your system around.
If it is not difficult then present your explanation for others to read!!!!
Originally posted by Daniel David:
Btw, I deny any Jewish priority in the millenium. There, what does that do for you? I am not alone on the issue. Many premills deny jewish priority. So, you can stop with that insane excuse.
You may deny it but that is Darbyite doctrine. If you are going to buy into his false teachings you at least try to understand what they are. It is certain you do not understand Scripture.
Originally posted by Daniel David:
Christ made the issue quite plain. Those who have chosen Christ over everything else in the world will be rewarded in the regeneration, when Christ rules from his throne. Funny how you assign hyperbole to something that gives no indication of hyperbole.
If you will read my post you will see that I did not assign hyperbole to Jesus Christ's remarks about
the regeneration but made it quite clear that He is talking about the renewal of the heavens and the earth as also indicated by Paul and Isaiah. The hyperbole relates to the 12 apostles ruling over the 12 tribes of Israel.
Originally posted by Daniel David:
Sigh, such is the need for all who are gullible enough to believe amillenialism. It is so sad. I hope you don't teach anywhere, for that would be making others to be reckless with the word as well.
Daniel David, I feel sorry for you. Your insulting remarks oscillate between that of a
spoiled child and a
bitter old man. I have only been on this forum for about 3 months. In all that time I don't recall reading one post from you that does not contain an insulting derogatory remark. Also I have noticed that they are essentally void of any Scripture to support your supposed beliefs.
Are you on this forum to discuss Scripture or to insult those who are?
