A-millennialism still reigns supreme -

[Ed Edwards]

OldRegular: "You seem to be saying, I am really not sure, that the Day of the Lord represents 1000 years. However the rest of the passage states that in the Day of the Lord, ... in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up Please tell me, if the earth is to be destroyed in the Day of the Lord where are all those nice folks who survive the GRRReat Tribulation and all the resurrected Saints going to live"

I really am saying that it only makes sense to believe that
the "day of the Lord" in 2 Peter 3:10 is the same as the
1,000 years in Revelation 20. The only alternative is to
have the two periods DIFFERENT. Most a-mills i know disbelieve
the physical 1,000 years in Revelation 20. IMHO they
sacrifice Revelation 20 on their misunderstanding of
2 PEter 3:10.

BTW, both ends of a time period can be construed as in the
time period. The Jewish saved persons that survive
the tribulation period UNDER THE PERSONAL PROTECTION OF GOD
will live on a physical earth. At the end of the 1,000
years, somethhing else happends. IT is in Revelation 20.

All i'm saying is both 2 Peter 3:10 and Revelatin 20
are correct. Unlike bankrupt a-millinnialism that discards
one of the two passages as being "spiritual" (AKA as
mysticism). A-mill is a dead, vain, hopeless philosophy.
Fortunately is is not taught in the Holy Bible.

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by carlaimpinge:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by OldRegular:
I am still waiting for adherents of Darbyism/Scofieldism/classic dispensationalism/ultra dispensationalism, whichever they prefer, to quote just one verse of Scripture that teaches a pretribulation rapture. They are apparently unable to do so.

I am an adherent to Pauline dispensationalism (Eph.1, 3, Col.1, 1 Cor.9), which teaches the FACT that the mystery of the gathering of the BODY OF CHRIST (1 Cor.12,15/1 Thess.4)is a gathering before THE WRATH TO COME (1 Thess.1,5, Matt.3,24, Luke 3, 21), identified by Paul as the day of the Lord. We ESCAPE that TIME which is the tribulation/great tribulation/affliction/days of vengeance/wrath (Matt.24, Mark 13, Luke 21) which comes on Jerusalem (the time of Jacob's trouble, Jer.30) at the MIDST of Daniel's week, IDENTIFIED by the Lord Jesus Christ through Daniel. (Dan.9,11,12)

No problem for this BIBLICAL dispensationalist to give you the verses for the fact of a PRETRIB gathering.

Thanks for the REQUEST and OPPORTUNITY. </font>[/QUOTE]The word dispensation is used 4 times by the Apostle Paul, as follows:

1Coorinthians 9:17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.

Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Ephesians 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

Colossians 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

There is nothing in either of these Scripture that would support the false doctrines of either classic, ultra, or progressive dispensationalism. Pauline dispensationalism must be a new breed of dispensationalism.

As for the passages you mentioned, none of them support the removal if the Church prior to the GRRReat TRRibulation.

I have repeatedly ask that someone who has been caught up in the error of Darbyism/Scofieldism/dispensationalism present one passage of Scripture that shows that the the Church will be removed from earth prior to the GRRReat TRRibulation. So far no one has.

Simply saying that a passage describing the resurrection of the Saints proves the removal if the Church prior to the GRRReat TRRibulation is meaningless. All those passages mean is that the writer is talking to Christians about the resurrection and it is only logical that he emphasize the resurrection or transformation of the Saints.

EE has already conceded, after careful exegesis of John 5:28, 29, that at a specific time [EE's words, post 6, page 18] all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

There is hope after all.

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:


I really am saying that it only makes sense to believe that
the "day of the Lord" in 2 Peter 3:10 is the same as the
1,000 years in Revelation 20. The only alternative is to
have the two periods DIFFERENT. Most a-mills i know disbelieve
the physical 1,000 years in Revelation 20. IMHO they
sacrifice Revelation 20 on their misunderstanding of
2 PEter 3:10.

The above is called eisegesis, not exegesis!

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
BTW, both ends of a time period can be construed as in the
time period. The Jewish saved persons that survive
the tribulation period UNDER THE PERSONAL PROTECTION OF GOD
will live on a physical earth. At the end of the 1,000
years, somethhing else happends. IT is in Revelation 20.

You say "IT is in Revelation 20." What is IT?

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
OldRegular: All i'm saying is both 2 Peter 3:10 and Revelatin 20
are correct. Unlike bankrupt a-millinnialism that discards
one of the two passages as being "spiritual" (AKA as
mysticism). A-mill is a dead, vain, hopeless philosophy.
Fortunately is is not taught in the Holy Bible.

Certainly 2 Peter 3:10 and Revelation 20 are correct. You folks who follow Darbyism/Scofieldism/dispensationalism just don't know what they mean. Revelation 20:1-6 is a recapitulation of the time between the First and Second Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. Revelation 20:7-10 is a picture of the Second Coming, as discussed in 2 Peter 3:1-13, and the judgment of Satan [He was defeated at the First Coming of Jesus Christ as Hebrews 2:14 tells us] and his followers. Revelation 20:11-15 gives us a more detailed picture of the Great White Throne Judgment.

As for amillennialism it has been around for about 2000 years. Dispensationalism has existed since Darby invented it about 1830 and is already being abandoned by many in a movement called progressive dispensationalism which is rapidly moving toward the theology of Covenant Premillennialism.

Darbyism/Scofieldism/dispensationalism denigrates the work of Jesus Christ in His death for the Church and it will inevitably fail.

 

[OldRegular]

EE

I asked this question in an earlier post and as usual you refuse to answer. I will try again.

What kind of body does the Saints who were "raptured" before the GRRReat Tribulation have during the 1000 year reign on the physical earth while they are judging "whoever"?

 

[carlaimpinge]

Originally posted by OldRegular:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by carlaimpinge:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by OldRegular:
I am still waiting for adherents of Darbyism/Scofieldism/classic dispensationalism/ultra dispensationalism, whichever they prefer, to quote just one verse of Scripture that teaches a pretribulation rapture. They are apparently unable to do so.

I am an adherent to Pauline dispensationalism (Eph.1, 3, Col.1, 1 Cor.9), which teaches the FACT that the mystery of the gathering of the BODY OF CHRIST (1 Cor.12,15/1 Thess.4)is a gathering before THE WRATH TO COME (1 Thess.1,5, Matt.3,24, Luke 3, 21), identified by Paul as the day of the Lord. We ESCAPE that TIME which is the tribulation/great tribulation/affliction/days of vengeance/wrath (Matt.24, Mark 13, Luke 21) which comes on Jerusalem (the time of Jacob's trouble, Jer.30) at the MIDST of Daniel's week, IDENTIFIED by the Lord Jesus Christ through Daniel. (Dan.9,11,12)

No problem for this BIBLICAL dispensationalist to give you the verses for the fact of a PRETRIB gathering.

Thanks for the REQUEST and OPPORTUNITY. </font>[/QUOTE]The word dispensation is used 4 times by the Apostle Paul, as follows:

1Coorinthians 9:17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.

Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Ephesians 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

Colossians 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

There is nothing in either of these Scripture that would support the false doctrines of either classic, ultra, or progressive dispensationalism. Pauline dispensationalism must be a new breed of dispensationalism.

As for the passages you mentioned, none of them support the removal if the Church prior to the GRRReat TRRibulation.

I have repeatedly ask that someone who has been caught up in the error of Darbyism/Scofieldism/dispensationalism present one passage of Scripture that shows that the the Church will be removed from earth prior to the GRRReat TRRibulation. So far no one has.

Simply saying that a passage describing the resurrection of the Saints proves the removal if the Church prior to the GRRReat TRRibulation is meaningless. All those passages mean is that the writer is talking to Christians about the resurrection and it is only logical that he emphasize the resurrection or transformation of the Saints.

EE has already conceded, after careful exegesis of John 5:28, 29, that at a specific time [EE's words, post 6, page 18] all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

There is hope after all. </font>[/QUOTE]Pauline dispensationalism is BIBLICAL DISPENSATIONALISM. You gave the verses yourself. The four verses concerning the word dispensation confirm PAULINE DISPENSATIONALISM, not false doctrines of others.

Now, we're getting to the meat. You say that NONE support the removal of the body of Christ before the great tribulation. Sorry.
The prooftexts for the removal of the body are there. Look at them.

I didn't simply state anything. You would have to look at those verses. Your simple denial is not good enough either, brother.

We are delivered from the WRATH TO COME. If you don't KNOW what that is, check out John the Baptist who spoke about FLEEING from it, as did the Lord. Do you KNOW what he was talking about? THE TRIBULATION, THE GREAT TRIBULATION, AFFLICTION, THE DAYS OF VENGEANCE.

That's what Paul SAID we were delivered from. (1 Thess.1,5) Again, the verses are there.

Now if you can't read that, I understand why nobody could show you any verse.

If I hear you clamour about a verse again, I'll KNOW about the person who's asking for one.

I don't follow EE's "false doctrine", no more that I'll repeat answers to those who have been answered.

Good day.

 

[Phillip]

Per BB rules, I am closing this at 20 pages.
DeafPosttrib has already opened up a continuation to the debate at:

Amillennialism Debate -Part Three