A New Type of Christian Political Discussion

[Revmitchell]

You don't consider "Christian" to have negative connotations? Are you a "Christian" or a Christian?

Christians should know better. And those who support abortion or those who do are not acting "Christian".

 

[JustChristian]

Christians should know better. And those who support abortion or those who do are not acting "Christian".

I don't understand your reply. What is acting "Christian?" How does it differ from acting Christian? I interpret "Christian" to mean someone who professes to be a Christian but is not one.

 

[Bible-boy]

You don't consider "Christian" to have negative connotations? Are you a "Christian" or a Christian?

Christians can and do display un-Christ-like behaviors and some even do things that the Bible speaks against. When discussing such things it may well be reasonable to place " " marks around the word Christian in order to make a point that what some Christians are doing is not biblical or Chirst-like. Does this mean that someone is questioning their salvation? I don't think so. It is simply pointing out the fact that as a professing Christian one ought to be as biblical as possible and seek to be Christ-like in all they do. So with respect to the abortion debate and/or the homos*xual debate the question is would Jesus support voting for a candidate who endorses/supports abortion and/or same s*x marriage? I don't think so. Therefore, as Christians why should we support/vote for such candidates?

 

[JustChristian]

Christians can and do display un-Christ-like behaviors and some even do things that the Bible speaks against. When discussing such things it may well be reasonable to place " " marks around the word Christian in order to make a point that what some Christians are doing is not biblical or Chirst-like. Does this mean that someone is questioning their salvation? I don't think so. It is simply pointing out the fact that as a professing Christian one ought to be as biblical as possible and seek to be Christ-like in all they do. So with respect to the abortion debate and/or the homos*xual debate the question is would Jesus support voting for a candidate who endorses/supports abortion and/or same s*x marriage? I don't think so. Therefore, as Christians why should we support/vote for such candidates?

I take the quotation marks to mean something different than you do but that's not a big deal if they were meant to denote behavior. I'm sensitive about this kind of thing because I've been told twice to my face that Democrats can't be Christians and I didn't like it. We've been round and round about the election and I'm not sure anything can be added to that discussion. I'd simply say that I'm not a one issue voter especially when the other party (Republican) really hasn't done anything about abortion and they seem to have a propensity for starting wars.

By the way, we can restart the discussion on just war theory if you like. I can't remember now why I backed out of it before but I remember having a reason to do so. A separate thread would probably be appropriate. I'll discuss it on the grounds that there is no one answer that's right for everyone. If I were a Quaker or Mennonite I wouldn't accept war at all and I respect their beliefs.

 

[Bible-boy]

I take the quotation marks to mean something different than you do but that's not a big deal if they were meant to denote behavior. I'm sensitive about this kind of thing because I've been told twice to my face that Democrats can't be Christians and I didn't like it. We've been round and round about the election and I'm not sure anything can be added to that discussion. I'd simply say that I'm not a one issue voter especially when the other party (Republican) really hasn't done anything about abortion and they seem to have a propensity for starting wars.

By the way, we can restart the discussion on just war theory if you like. I can't remember now why I backed out of it before but I remember having a reason to do so. A separate thread would probably be appropriate. I'll discuss it on the grounds that there is no one answer that's right for everyone. If I were a Quaker or Mennonite I wouldn't accept war at all and I respect their beliefs.

The only answer that is right for any of us as Christians is what the whole counsel of God's Word has to say with respect to Christian Just War criteria. The only way for us to know that answer is to use sound hermeneutics and solid exegesis to arrive at the correct interpretation of the Scriptures. Then we must acknowledge that God's Word is the final and absolute authority over our lives and as such we cannot allow our personal experience and feelings to have authority over God's Word in any way shape or form. If we can agree on those principles then I have no problem returning to that discussion/debate. However, if personal experience and feelings are to be allowed to trump the Scriptures there is no point in discussing it further because we will just end up arguing past one another.

Regarding Quakers and Mennonites I respect their right to hold to their beliefs. However, that does not mean that I agree that their position is correct, that their interpretation of the Scripture which led to those beliefs is correct, or that their hernemeutical method leading to their interpretation is correct and/or the most biblical.

I agree that another thread would be the best place to hold this discussion.

 

[Bible-boy]

If this forum can truly become one in which policy is discussed in a rational, calm manner I will be glad to interact with fellow Christians on such matters.

Well...

That idea apparently didn't last long. :BangHead:

If I were to engage in the nonsense that the anti-Obama people in this forum are engagin in I would refer to Rush Limbaugh as a Fascist, not a Communist. But since I am not going to get into the nonsense that the anti-Obama people in this forum are engaging in, I won't do that. http://www.baptistboard.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1331274

Apparently Ken thinks it is "nonsense" for us to try and determine where political leaders stand in the political spectrum based on a comparison of their speeches and records with the published political agenda of political parties in the US.

 

[KenH]

Well, Bible-boy, since your side didn't adhere to that standard I saw no reason to go into a rhetorical gunfight with only a knife.

 

[Bible-boy]

Well, Bible-boy, since your side didn't adhere to that standard I saw no reason to go into a rhetorical gunfight with only a knife.

We absolutely adhered to this standard. We presented honest and straight-forward information obtained directly from the political organization that published their political philosophies and ideas on the Internet and then presented President-elect Obama's own statements on those same political philosophies and ideas. We provided the direct quotes and the links to all the sources. Then we asked some very honest and straight-forward questions regarding those political philosophies and ideas. No one has called any poster here mean names or engaged in any heated rhetoric. However, you chose to call the honest attempt to discuss the issues (with evidence and sources provided) nonsense and to introduce off-topic material in an attempt to derail the discussion. I am sorry that you do not like the facts that have been presented. However, if you believe us to be in error with the information we provided then please address the issues and disprove our conclusions by presenting quotes and sources from President-elect Obama that contradict and disprove our conclusions. However, please do not introduce off-topic material and attacks against other people that have nothing to do with the subject of the thread.

 

[KenH]

Either you are refusing to admit what your side is doing, Bible-boy, or else you are blind to it.

 

[windcatcher]

We absolutely adhered to this standard. We presented honest and straight-forward information obtained directly from the political organization that published their political philosophies and ideas on the Internet and then presented President-elect Obama's own statements on those same political philosophies and ideas. We provided the direct quotes and the links to all the sources. Then we asked some very honest and straight-forward questions regarding those political philosophies and ideas. No one has called any poster here mean names or engaged in any heated rhetoric. However, you chose to call the honest attempt to discuss the issues (with evidence and sources provided) nonsense and to introduce off-topic material in an attempt to derail the discussion. I am sorry that you do not like the facts that have been presented. However, if you believe us to be in error with the information we provided then please address the issues and disprove our conclusions by presenting quotes and sources from President-elect Obama that contradict and disprove our conclusions. However, please do not introduce off-topic material and attacks against other people that have nothing to do with the subject of the thread.

Well said! Very well said.

 

[Palatka51]

So you question the salvation of those who vote Democratic? Do you have a Biblical basis for that?

Well yes I do.

11 O ye Corinthians, our mouth is open unto you, our heart is enlarged.
12 Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels.
13 Now for a recompense in the same, (I speak as unto my children,) be ye also enlarged.
14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

A vote for the national Democratic ticket yoked many Christians to the harbingers of gay rights and abortion.

 

[JustChristian]

Well yes I do.

11 O ye Corinthians, our mouth is open unto you, our heart is enlarged.
12 Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels.
13 Now for a recompense in the same, (I speak as unto my children,) be ye also enlarged.
14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,
18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

A vote for the national Democratic ticket yoked many Christians to the harbingers of gay rights and abortion.

Do you actually think George Bush is an authentic Christian after he said publically (twice) that Muslims and Christians worship the same god and that Muslims will go to heaven but by a different route than through Jesus Christ. If you voted for him you argument holds against YOU.

 

[Palatka51]

Do you actually think George Bush is an authentic Christian after he said publically (twice) that Muslims and Christians worship the same god and that Muslims will go to heaven but by a different route than through Jesus Christ. If you voted for him you argument holds against YOU.

Yes and his deception is on him. For it was only after his testimony that he was a Christian and that he was pro-life. Franklin Graham did not help matters. However the option was Al Gore and his tree hugging or John Kerry. Again the deception is on him not me.

 

[JustChristian]

Yes and his deception is on him. For it was only after his testimony that he was a Christian and that he was pro-life. Franklin Graham did not help matters. However the option was Al Gore and his tree hugging or John Kerry. Again the deception is on him not me.

So you took a blasphemer over a tree hugger? Interesting.

 

[Bible-boy]

Do you actually think George Bush is an authentic Christian after he said publically (twice) that Muslims and Christians worship the same god and that Muslims will go to heaven but by a different route than through Jesus Christ. If you voted for him you argument holds against YOU.

Does being wrong and/or uneducated with respect to soteriology (regarding Islam) equate to the clear sinfulness of murdering the unborn and rejecting God's Word by supporting/embracing what God has called sinful and an abomination?

 

[JustChristian]

Does being wrong and/or uneducated with respect to soteriology (regarding Islam) equate to the clear sinfulness of murdering the unborn and rejecting God's Word by supporting/embracing what God has called sinful and an abomination?

Yes. I call what Bush said blasphemy. Abortion is a sin. God will forgive sins. God will not forgive the following kind of blasphemy:

Bush Unworthy of the Christian Vote
Reed R. Heustis, Jr.
October 29, AD 2004
http://www.reedheustis.com

I couldn't believe my own ears when I heard it myself.

Goosebumps riddled my body, and my blood curdled.

Earlier this week on ABC News, our "Christian" President George W. Bush proclaimed in front of a national audience that Christians and Muslims worship "the same god". (To see and view the interview online, please visit: http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/elections/article.adp?id=20041026095909990008)

Bush also said that Muslims and non-Christians both go to heaven because "we have different routes of getting there."

These statements are utter rejections of the Truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Said Christ, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." (John 14:6) No genuine Christian would ever proclaim that Muslims and Christians worship the same deity.

 

[Revmitchell]

God will not forgive the following kind of blasphemy:

You need to study that issue.

 

[Palatka51]

Does being wrong and/or uneducated with respect to soteriology (regarding Islam) equate to the clear sinfulness of murdering the unborn and rejecting God's Word by supporting/embracing what God has called sinful and an abomination?

If Mr Bush is looking at the fact that Islam has it's roots in, Ishmael the son of Abraham, thus has a heritage of worshiping the God of Abraham, then it stands to reason that this was the context of his reasoning. I do not see it as blasphemous. Salvation is indeed through the God of Abraham. However if he meant in context of salvation through the teachings of the Koran then Just Christian will get no argument from me.

 

[carpro]

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustChristian
God will not forgive the following kind of blasphemy:

You need to study that issue.

Big time!!! :thumbs:

 

[JustChristian]

You need to study that issue.

This is what Bush said in the ABC News interview.

Oct. 26, 2004 - While the president often refers to God during public addresses to his supporters, Bush's religious convictions don't always seem to reflect those of the conservative Christians who make up his political base.

In an exclusive interview with ABC News' Charles Gibson, Bush said he believes that both Christians and Muslims worship the same God.

"I think we do. We have different routes of getting to the Almighty," Bush said. "But I want you to understand, I want your listeners to understand, I don't get to get decide who goes to heaven. The Almighty God decides who goes to heaven and I am on my personal walk," he said.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you believe that there are different ways of "getting to the Almighty" I think YOU need to seriously examine your own beliefs.