A novel view on Old Earth Creationism

[Aaron]

And consider how many orphans, widows, homeless and sick people that kind of money could have helped. Just a thought . . .

Seems many Christian ministries' priorities are a tad misplaced.

And when the Lord returns, I doubt He will say, "Ooh, nice Noah's Ark replica and what an interesting museum too! We can use all of these in the Millennial Kingdom!" View attachment 4372

...said Judas when Mary anointed the feet of Jesus with ointment of spikenard.

 

[Centrist]

For me, I have nothing to really prove OEC versus YEC. Just my experiences in geology. I also believe that there were other advanced civilizations here long before us. But then, that is only opinion.

 

[Seeker of the Source]

. . . Just my experiences in geology. I also believe that there were other advanced civilizations here long before us. But then, that is only opinion.

I wholeheartedly agree with your feeling about "advanced civilizations" long ago. Adam and his clan, as well as that of Cain's were long-lived people lasting for centuries. A lot can be learned and achieved by a person living for centuries. I also believe that men and women back then were naturally "smarter" for reasons I don't need to elaborate on now. I think the things humanity were able to create long ago leaned mostly towards such evil however that God wiped them out with the Noachian deluge. Then only 700 years later mankind was back at their old tricks with the Tower of Babel. Genesis 11 states "The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.” So the Lord scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city." This passage and the mention of what Cain's descendants achieved lends much credence to your and my beliefs.

I have only come across one book in my Christian life that fully elaborates on this idea. Find it here: https://www.amazon.com/Did-Genesis-Man-Conquer-Space/dp/0840755538

God bless . . .

 

[church mouse guy]

The Tower of Babel was shortly after the flood. By 700 years after the flood, there was famine in the world and the whole world went to Egypt for food.

 

[Yeshua1]

Sailhamer addresses the six days of Genesis in his book "Genesis Unbound" as days of God preparing a specific "land" for Adam and Eve -- not the entire planet. The KJV word in Genesis in the creation account called the "earth" should be translated the "land". There was a literal six, 24-hour days of preparing or "recreating" a "specific area" on the planet that a cosmic chaos had brought waste and "void" to -- and this I agree with. I can totally buy into that scenario. So, Sailhamer basically is asserting the "Gap Theory" between Gen 1:1 and 1:2 which makes perfect sense to me. God allowed the warfare with Satan to reach the earth but in spite of the havoc wreaked, He started over with a new thing called "Man" the forerunner of the coming "God-Man" aka Jesus the Christ. This theory allows for an earth history of countless aeons but also allows for a subsequent 6-day "recreation". Sailhamer explains this all much better than I can.

The universe is vastly old and larger than we can imagine. And the earth is ancient as well. Mankind, (Homo sapiens, Homo sapiens neaderthalensis, Homo erectus and all the polymorphic, gender divergent Homos included), are relatively new things on this earth.

Was the Global Flood worldwide? Yes, I believe it was and a great fish swallowed Jonah and Jesus rose from the dead. I believe all these things. When the Flood happened, I have no clue. But Genesis 6 is history and not fable.

Lastly, if you ever want to experience a very unusual view of earth history then try to get through G.H. Pember's "Earth's Earliest Ages". G. H. Pember - Wikipedia
I found it an interesting and challenging read but I totally could not buy into his idea of pre-Adamic men roaming the earth. Just too whacked for me . . .

I quote from another webpage,"Pember distinguishes between corrupted "angels" who joined Satan's rebellion, and "demons," the spirits of the sinful pre-Adamite creatures who walked Earth in ages past. If there was a pre-Adamite race of creatures or beings, where are their fossils? Pember offers several suggestions: God might have zapped or rotted them; they might have been swallowed up by the Earth; or, most likely, they may be entombed at the bottom of the abyss, where their spirits are still imprisoned. . . ." See what I mean, just too "out there".

Well, I have blabbed long enough. I need to go edit another website's database . . .

God bless!

was Adam and Eve special creations of God, or the result of Homid evolution?

 

[Yeshua1]

Evolutionary, Darwinistic "science" has nothing to do with "compelling" a Christian to choose to be an OEC. It's simply looking at correct interpretation of ancient Hebrew in the Genesis account and also being willing to see countless examples God has provided that prove the earth Man walks on has been here a very, very long time. He is only a recent "implant" by the Creator. The earth's history shows vast eons existing before the creation of Adam and Eve and Paradise. Old earth creationism has never suggested the illogical tenets of Darwinism. YEC camp adherents like to state OEC adherents open the door for evolution to be true but that is simple poppycock.

Did God create from nothing, or did He big bang? Is mankind a special creation, or was evolved to where he is at now?

 

[37818]

Did God create from nothing, or did He big bang?

Can be both.

Is mankind a special creation, or was evolved to where he is at now?

Is both. Man is from Adam and Eve and Noah and his sons.

 

[Quantrill]

Can be both.
Is both. Man is from Adam and Eve and Noah and his sons.

How is that?

Where did the something come from if not from God?

Man is not the beginning of creation.

Quantrill

 

[37818]

How is that?

Where did the something come from if not from God?

God is Creator. John 1:3. Colossians 1:16-17.
All life and mankind from Adam and Noah goes through micro evolution.

 

[timtofly]

1) Current day OEC has nothing to do with Darwinism. FACT.

2) Earth history has been analyzed scientifically in many ways by countless believing scientists who have come to believe in an old earth. They did not use presumption nor fall into conjecture. They used the logical minds God gave them. Because someone states the bible only teaches YEC does NOT equal the revelation of God. YEC adherents merely assert their chosen belief as the only truth because they think their narrow-minded interpretation of the Genesis creation account is God-breathed. It is NOT.

3) LOL all you like. When the Lord re-created, repaired and remade the most recent earth we have today, that was previously made formless and void -- in that unique, re-creative time-frame was what Jesus was referring to as "the beginning of creation". I speak of the well-known "Gap Theory" between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 here. Careful analysis of the ancient Hebrew words used in Genesis 1 give a strong support for the "Gap Theory". Is God capable of repairing a devastated ancient earth? Of course He is! And can the Creator Jesus correctly call it "the beginning"? Of course He can!

Were Adam and Eve created on the 6th day of this recreation of the ancient earth? Of course! Were they "latecomers" or "implants" on an older earth? Yes!

Is there a real debate about what Genesis is saying here? Of course there is! Believing Christians have debated the events of the record of creation for many years -- and it will continue until Christ returns!

There is not a question here about believing the bible -- it is simply about correct interpretation. Because someone doesn't agree with your interpretation -- does not mean they don't believe the scripture. To assert such is simply holding onto dogma and not seeking the path to the truth.

You can be a YEC if you like -- just don't assert OEC don't believe the bible. That is uncalled for.

Genesis 1:1 does not have a gap.

The 7th Day was a period of 1000 years. The Garden of Eden was created 1000 years after creation week. That is the only gap in time, no one accounts for in the last 7000 years of creation's existence. The Day of the Lord, God rested, life on earth multiplied without any death or decay. It was a perfect economy between plant life and animal life. The sons of God had full dominion and authority.

1000 years after creation Adam was separated just like Abraham was separated in Abraham's day for a particular task of living in and filling up God's temple on earth, the Garden of Eden. The only "old earth" was the sin infested time between Adam's disobedience and ejection from the Garden until the Flood, when even the sons of God became corrupted from sin and death and God destroyed them all.

Modern science is the result of Satan working for 2500 years starting with the Greeks. Of course the Greeks had stories of Satan's abyss under the earth. They were friends and recievers of Satan's knowledge that he fed to them. Follow Satan and you are following the mathematical virtual reality that Satan has created called modern science. This ancient universe is just a mathematical virtual figment of books and the human mind. That is the only way to reconcile science with God’s Word.

The Second Coming as described by Jesus:

29 “But immediately following the trouble of those times,

the sun will grow dark,
the moon will stop shining,
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers in heaven will be shaken.

30 “Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, all the tribes of the Land will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with tremendous power and glory.

Compared to John:

12 Then I watched as he broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake, the sun turned black as sackcloth worn in mourning, and the full moon became blood-red.
13 The stars fell from heaven to earth just as a fig tree drops its figs when shaken by a strong wind.
14 The sky receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved from its place.
15 Then the earth’s kings, the rulers, the generals, the rich and the mighty — indeed, everyone, slave and free — hid himself in caves and among the rocks in the mountains,
16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us, and hide us from the face of the One sitting on the throne and from the fury of the Lamb!
17 For the Great Day of their fury has come, and who can stand?”


A few things:

The stars are only angels and come to earth with the effect of a fig leave. No more literal stars, only angels. The universe will roll back like a scroll or curtain. No more literal 14 billion light year universe. All rolled up like a virtual projection screen, and forever gone in seconds.

The two lights in the sky from Genesis 1, will be dimmed or turn off. Not needed with the brightness of God's Glory lighting up the entire earth.

John adds information to the earthquake that even the mountains and continents will be moved out of their places. Back to the pre-flood condition. What science claims took millions of years, God will change within minutes, both in heaven above and on the earth below. This will be in preparation for one final 1000 year, Day with the Lord on earth. Between Genesis, Exodus, and Revelation, it is clearly shown this existence is bound by a definite period of 8000 years, giving us the boundary of the size of the earth, heaven, and under the earth in God's math of a fourth dimension. Our reality is then defined by the length, depth, and height of God's creation as shown in Genesis 1. These three finite and measurable distances would define the literal universe, except we only rely on the knowledge Satan has fed us gradually over the last 2500 years, per Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2.

 

[Quantrill]

God is Creator. John 1:3. Colossians 1:16-17.
All life and mankind from Adam and Noah goes through micro evolution.

You're being deceptive. Concerning the creation you said God can create from nothing or the big bang. post #(47). If He created from the big bang, then He didn't create from nothing. Which asks, what was there to go bang? And was it there before God?

Concerning the origin of creation, God created from nothing.

No, life and mankind from Adam goes through procreation. Not evolution. Being born of Adam is not evolution. Silly thought.

Quantrill

 

[37818]

If He created from the big bang, then He didn't create from nothing.

Are you really ignorant of the ex nihilo interpretation of Genesis 1:1 where the evidence for the big bang is taken as evidence for Genesis 1:1? Mission and Beliefs

No, life and mankind from Adam goes through procreation. Not evolution. Being born of Adam is not evolution. Silly thought.

Are you being silly? Are you really denying that life forms changed over time? It is called micro evolution. I am not affirming (macro) evolution.

 

[Quantrill]

Are you really ignorant of the ex nihilo interpretation of Genesis 1:1 where the evidence for the big bang is taken as evidence for Genesis 1:1? Mission and Beliefs

Are you being silly? Are you really denying that life forms changed over time? It is called micro evolution. I am not affirming (macro) evolution.

(Gen. 1:1) doesn't need the big bang to support it. The big bang doesn't prove God created. God created from nothing. The big bang is science saying creation came from something.

Yes, I am denying any form of evolution. If 'microevolution' isn't evolution, then don't call it evolution.

Quantrill

 

[37818]

Yes, I am denying any form of evolution. If 'microevolution' isn't evolution, then don't call it evolution.

Evolution (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)
"Evolution may be defined as any net directional change or any cumulative change in the characteristics of organisms or populations over many generations—in other words, descent with modification… It explicitly includes the origin as well as the spread of alleles, variants, trait values, or character states. (Endler 1986: 5)"

 

[37818]

(Gen. 1:1) doesn't need the big bang to support it. The big bang doesn't prove God created. God created from nothing. The big bang is science saying creation came from something.

Science means knowledge. And true science is God's word. Psalms 19:4, Romans 10:17.

Yes, I am denying any form of evolution. If 'microevolution' isn't evolution, then don't call it evolution.

You are wrong because there is micro change with all life. Even though it is never really macro it is called evolution.

 

[church mouse guy]

Science means knowledge. And true science is God's word. Psalms 19:4, Romans 10:17.

You are wrong because there is micro change with all life. Even though it is never really macro it is called evolution.

It’s been so long since I tried to read Darwin, but I think that he meant evolution to mean new species evolved from old species.

 

[37818]

It’s been so long since I tried to read Darwin, but I think that he meant evolution to mean new species evolved from old species.

Yes, that was the generalization Darwin made. The science does not support that macro evolution conclusion.

 

[church mouse guy]

Yes, that was the generalization Darwin made. The science does not support that macro evolution conclusion.

No, and science does not support deep time either although you cannot say that out-loud in Sunday School.

 

[timtofly]

No, life and mankind from Adam goes through procreation. Not evolution. Being born of Adam is not evolution. Silly thought.

That is the only evolution there is. There is no other kind. That is the point.

 

[Quantrill]

Evolution (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)
"Evolution may be defined as any net directional change or any cumulative change in the characteristics of organisms or populations over many generations—in other words, descent with modification… It explicitly includes the origin as well as the spread of alleles, variants, trait values, or character states. (Endler 1986: 5)"

"When I use the term 'evolution', I am referring to the idea that after the earth was formed it took millions of years to produce organic molecules and then many more millions of years of evolutionary processes and 'survival of the fittest' to produce people (the molecules-to-man theory)." (The Evolutionist of a Creationist, Jobe Martin, Biblical Discipleship Publishers, 1994, p.10)

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