A Perfect Example why America will lose the war on terror....

[LadyEagle]

Can we please get back on topic about the ham hate crime, or has everyone accepted the fact that ham, pigs, and dogs will one day be taboo in the free world we have known because they are offensive to muslims? Once they are in the majority, kiss your pet Fido goodbye along with your pulled pork BBQ and Christmas Honeybaked Ham and sausage and bacon with eggs, and prepare yourselves to be jailed and pay your Jizyah (infidel tax). Enjoy that annual BBQ down at the VFW which will eventually be banned because the smell of pork cooking is offensive to muslims. Get used to it, folks, for this PC slippery slope has only just started since 09/11. <LE exercising my 1st amendment rights while I still have them even though my opinion may be "offensive" to some here.>

The Archbishop of Izmir, His Exc. Giuseppe Germano Bernandini, summed up the political dilemma of the West in relation to Islam by quoting an authoritative Muslim spokesperson that he had encountered during an Islamic-Christian dialogue meeting. The man calmly stated with assurance, "Thanks to your democratic laws we will invade you; thanks to our religious laws we will dominate you."

http://www.islamreview.com/articles/theroad.shtml

 

[KenH]

Constitutional law has been followed.

No, it wasn't. The Congress passed a resolution giving the president the power to decide whether to "declare" war. That was unconstitutional.

 

[KenH]

or has everyone accepted the fact that ham, pigs, and dogs will one day be taboo in the free world we have known because they are offensive to muslims?

I don't think that will ever happen in these United States.

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

No, it wasn't. The Congress passed a resolution giving the president the power to decide whether to "declare" war. That was unconstitutional.

I would like to see this resolution. I am aware of the resolution to use deadly force but not to declare war. And the war on Iraq was declared in 1991 and was never recanted.

 

[KenH]

And the war on Iraq was declared in 1991

No, that one wasn't declared either. The U.S. Congress has not passed a declaration of war since World War II. The American people used to care about such things, but I guess not so today. Still, I am content to be a throwback to the time when the U.S. constitution actually mattered.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Can we please get back on topic about the ham hate crime, or has everyone accepted the fact that ham, pigs, and dogs will one day be taboo in the free world we have known because they are offensive to muslims? Once they are in the majority, kiss your pet Fido goodbye along with your pulled pork BBQ and Christmas Honeybaked Ham and sausage and bacon with eggs, and prepare yourselves to be jailed and pay your Jizyah (infidel tax). Enjoy that annual BBQ down at the VFW which will eventually be banned because the smell of pork cooking is offensive to muslims. Get used to it, folks, for this PC slippery slope has only just started since 09/11. <LE exercising my 1st amendment rights while I still have them even though my opinion may be "offensive" to some here.>



http://www.islamreview.com/articles/theroad.shtml

LE, your irrational fear is unfounded. No one is going to take away your ham, barbeque or dog. Your melodrama is amazing. Just because some bullies at a school get in trouble for harrassing and intimidating some fellow students, all of a sudden you can't have your pulled pork. You really need to let go of that fear before it consumes you.

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

No, it wasn't. The Congress passed a resolution giving the president the power to decide whether to "declare" war. That was unconstitutional.

I would still like to see the resolution for this. I do not think it exists.

 

[Dragoon68]

The Constitution states that “Congress shall have the power to … declare War …” but it doesn’t specify any particular details beyond that nor any format for so doing.

While it can be argued that Congress has in recent wars avoided using the term “Declaration of War” for its resolutions, it can not be rightly argued that for the on-going war in Iraq, it did not convene, debate, resolve, and publish explicit authorization to the President to make such war and thereby declared that our nation is at war with the specified enemy. It is the most complete resolution thus far! It fully meets the requirements of the Constitution.

It is an argument in semantics to claim that the intent of the Constitution has not been followed or that the war is somehow “illegal” because the resolution does not contain the words “Declaration of War” when there is no such requirement in the Constitution.

The Constitution does matter and there are many areas in which is has been misconstrued by the Courts. This, however, isn't one of them.

The war is completely just and completely legal. If only we could remain as resolved to what we proclaimed by our resolution proclaimed then we could focus upon its continuance to complete consumation.

 

[Dragoon68]

Can we please get back on topic about the ham hate crime, or has everyone accepted the fact that ham, pigs, and dogs will one day be taboo in the free world we have known because they are offensive to muslims? Once they are in the majority, kiss your pet Fido goodbye along with your pulled pork BBQ and Christmas Honeybaked Ham and sausage and bacon with eggs, and prepare yourselves to be jailed and pay your Jizyah (infidel tax). Enjoy that annual BBQ down at the VFW which will eventually be banned because the smell of pork cooking is offensive to muslims. Get used to it, folks, for this PC slippery slope has only just started since 09/11. <LE exercising my 1st amendment rights while I still have them even though my opinion may be "offensive" to some here.>

http://www.islamreview.com/articles/theroad.shtml

It may seem silly to some today but it is possible. Much of what happens today would have seemed impossible just one or two generations ago.

It is a very dangerous sign when government desires to prosecute children under "hate crime" law for, at worst, being rude.

Patrick Henry said: "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ!"

The goal of our enemies is to destroy this foundation such that a new one to serve them might replace it. They've already made considerable progress towards it using our own government against us.

 

[LadyEagle]

Amen, Dragoon!

LE, your irrational fear is unfounded. No one is going to take away your ham, barbeque or dog. Your melodrama is amazing. Just because some bullies at a school get in trouble for harrassing and intimidating some fellow students, all of a sudden you can't have your pulled pork. You really need to let go of that fear before it consumes you.

I am not consumed by fear, but I do not live in denial, either like the majority of PC Americans. The muslim takeover of America is coming. This "hate crime" business over ham is a slippery slope. Before 09/11, the ham in a bag would have never been an issue. Since 09/11, muslims have been emboldened and use the power of CAIR, multiple muslim lobbyists and groups and our own government against us to gain more and more power. It is evidenced in things like the call to prayer being blurted out in Michigan, by the cabbies refusing to take seeing eye dogs in cabs, by the muslims walking off the job for their special prayers to allah, and a host of other examples. I quoted to you what the agenda is from an authoritative muslim, and their agenda has been well documented throughout history and in present day headlines, as well as many islamic websites.

It is well documented and predicted that Europe is becoming islamitized. That is evidenced by churches, which have been around for years, being turned into mosques. How do you think this happens? One slippery slope after another. Once you give satan a foot hold, it becomes a strong hold. Or as arabs like to say, once the camel has his nose under the tent, it isn't long until the whole camel is in the tent.

Too bad many Americans refuse to see what is coming. Perhaps they are too terrified themselves and it is easier to live in denial of what history has shown us about the sword of islam.

Christianity Under Attack
In the period of time between the mission of Christ and the 6th century, Christianity had spread across the Middle East, Turkey, North Africa and Europe. This growth was almost entirely by peaceful Evangelization, often in the face of bitter persecution.

By 600 AD most of the former Roman Empire, North Africa and much of Europe were solidly Christian.
However, from 600 AD onward, Islam emerged from the Arabian peninsula as an aggressively expanding religion, which aimed to conquer all the lands of the region. This continuous war or "jihad" began just three years after Muhammad's death and continued for the next thousand years.

In this time Muslim armies overran the Christian Lands of
Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and Palestine 630 AD
Egypt 650 AD
North Africa, Libya, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco 700 AD
Spain 780 AD
Southern France 790 AD
Sicily 850 AD
Southern Italy 860 AD
Turkish borders 900 AD
Armenia and Georgia 1050 AD
Central Turkey 1070 AD
Greece 1300 AD
Bulgaria, Serbia and the Balkans 1400 AD
Constantinople 1450 AD
Of all the churches mentioned in the New Testament, only a single one, Rome, escaped Muslim domination.

In addition, piratical raids and campaigns of raiding on land, slave-taking and slaughter took place virtually every summer for a thousand years, both to acquire plunder, and to destabilise and weaken neighbouring Christian lands.

http://www.geocities.com/aprofaith/crusades.htm

So, let me ask you, MP, what do you think would happen if 500,000 or 1 million muslims decided to go door to door in America and start slaughtering? Or decided to start blowing up sporting events or malls or colleges? Do you think the feds would be able to stop the carnage? Do you think they would try? (Remember Katrina) Or do you think moderate American muslims would step up to the plate and defend the infidels?

 

[Magnetic Poles]

So, let me ask you, MP, what do you think would happen if 500,000 or 1 million muslims decided to go door to door in America and start slaughtering? Or decided to start blowing up sporting events or malls or colleges? Do you think the feds would be able to stop the carnage? Do you think they would try? (Remember Katrina) Or do you think moderate American muslims would step up to the plate and defend the infidels?

LE, your hypothetical is so absurd and not even remotely possible. You see all followers of Islam as terrorists. That is like saying all Christians are like Fred Phelps. I am no fan of Islam, but you seem to have lost perspective on this issue. You seem to either fear or hate, or both, Muslims. If that is not true, that is how you are coming across.

 

[LadyEagle]

LE, your hypothetical is so absurd and not even remotely possible. You see all followers of Islam as terrorists. That is like saying all Christians are like Fred Phelps. I am no fan of Islam, but you seem to have lost perspective on this issue. You seem to either fear or hate, or both, Muslims. If that is not true, that is how you are coming across.

Absurd? Almost 1.5 BILLION people call themselves muslim. If even 1% of Islam took up arms against the West, it would create an army number 14 million strong. Lets narrow the numbers to just the US population: Estimates vary from between 8 million and 12 million muslims in the US. Take 1% of that number, and you've got anywhere from 800,000 to 1.2 million islamofascists in the US. So, again, I ask, what if only 500,000 of them decided to go on their jihad. Do you think the moderate muslims would fight them or take up arms against us infidels?

My perspective on the issue is aligned with what terrorism experts have been saying long before 09/11 happened. Terrorists do live here among us. You might want to educate yourself on the status of islam and terrorism in the USA and what is being taught in your local mosque from their own Quran.

Even if you choose to not view this short video below, I'm posting it for those who really want to know the truth. Islam is the only religion in the world that mandates taking over the world by violence.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=776145451814705142&q=islam+what+the+west+needs+to+know&hl=en

When there are sufficient numbers of them in the US, it will happen on your block. Just as it has in other countries throughout the world. Perhaps all muslims are not terrorists, but their religion teaches terrorism. And 99% of the terrorism in the world is committed by muslims, not by Fred Phelps or others who call themselves Baptists. Your analogy is not an analogy when scrutinized under the microscope of truth.

 

[Dragoon68]

LE, your hypothetical is so absurd and not even remotely possible. You see all followers of Islam as terrorists. That is like saying all Christians are like Fred Phelps. I am no fan of Islam, but you seem to have lost perspective on this issue. You seem to either fear or hate, or both, Muslims. If that is not true, that is how you are coming across.

It wasn't that long ago that people were not been able to imagine the death and destruction accomplished by a small band of terrorists in this country in 2001. That's why people were so shocked by it. It was unimagineable! Since then we've continued to note what such enemies can, in fact, do in the name of Allah.

Apparently, at least some followers of Allah - perhaps the most radical - are capable of doing these things and of feeling they are completely justified to do them. If there is such capability in just a few acting in small groups what then can a massing of like hearts and minds accomplish acting together? Are we to believe that the less radical or "peaceful" of this religion will prevent the others from inciting and carrying out their violence?

Alexis de Tocqueville was a French historian visiting the USA in the 1830's and from his observations said: "The Americans combine the notions of Christianity and of liberty so intimately in their minds, that it is impossible to make them conceive the one without the other." Today, many have come to believe that we can continue our liberty without Christianity as its foundation and, perhaps, even with a "rich" and diverse mix of non-Christian influence to also include such types that express its hate towards Christians by killing them.

 

[amity]

When there are sufficient numbers of them in the US, it will happen on your block. Just as it has in other countries throughout the world. Perhaps all muslims are not terrorists, but their religion teaches terrorism. And 99% of the terrorism in the world is committed by muslims, not by Fred Phelps or others who call themselves Baptists. Your analogy is not an analogy when scrutinized under the microscope of truth.

Lady Eagle, you have gone off the deep end here. THIS IS "hate speech." Are you looking forward to the civil war you are helping to create? Now simmer down and look at things rationally. This is so patently absurd I am not even going to bother to answer directly. I am not at all amazed at what the "most radical" elements among Christians seem capable of doing ... and endorsing!

Now, how would you feel if some students placed, oh, say a beaker full of urine with a cross submerged in it on YOUR childrens' lunch table? No one is harmed. Does this action reflect hate? If so, then it needs to be prosecuted as a hate crime, yes.

 

[Petra-O IX]

It wasn't that long ago that people were not been able to imagine the death and destruction accomplished by a small band of terrorists in this country in 2001. That's why people were so shocked by it. It was unimagineable! Since then we've continued to note what such enemies can, in fact, do in the name of Allah.

Apparently, at least some followers of Allah - perhaps the most radical - are capable of doing these things and of feeling they are completely justified to do them. If there is such capability in just a few acting in small groups what then can a massing of like hearts and minds accomplish acting together? Are we to believe that the less radical or "peaceful" of this religion will prevent the others from inciting and carrying out their violence?

Alexis de Tocqueville was a French historian visiting the USA in the 1830's and from his observations said: "The Americans combine the notions of Christianity and of liberty so intimately in their minds, that it is impossible to make them conceive the one without the other." Today, many have come to believe that we can continue our liberty without Christianity as its foundation and, perhaps, even with a "rich" and diverse mix of non-Christian influence to also include such types that express its hate towards Christians by killing them.

The KKK claims to be a Supremist Christian entity and they will kill if given the oppurtunity just like the Muslims. It goes both ways. Just as there are Muslims who are not identified with radical extremist of their faith neither are those of us who would want to be identified with the radical extrimist religions in our country.

 

[Dragoon68]

The KKK claims to be a Supremist Christian entity and they will kill if given the oppurtunity just like the Muslims. It goes both ways. Just as there are Muslims who are not identified with radical extremist of their faith neither are those of us who would want to be identified with the radical extrimist religions in our country.

All mankind is fundamentally evil and in need of salvation from their just punishment of death and eternal separation from God. Christians are merely the imperfect followers chosen by the only perfect One.

I'm not aware of a bona fide Christian group - certainly not one acting according to Biblical doctrine - that advocates murdering those who are not followers of Jesus Christ just because they're not.

We're facing a great threat by the influx of non-Christian religions - especially the radical Islamic religion - into this country. The change will bring about nothing that's good and plenty that's bad. It is being brought about deliberately by those seeking to take over our land, change it to what they want it to be, and push us out in the process. This is being validated by our own people in the name of diversity.

The issue is not about tolerance for individuals and respecting the rights of our fellow humans to make their own decisions about what they believe and with who they congregate for worship. Only God can call those that He has chosen to His way. We can not force anyone to believe as we do and, even if we could, such belief would be corrupt by our still sinful nature.

The issue is about a group of such people who desire - as evidenced in their bible and by their violent intolerant practices - to destroy Christianity. We would be foolish to ignore that threat to the determent of our descendants. We should not make it easy to come about by lending support through our own force of law. We can and should regulate who is permitted to come into this country and for what purposes. We'd best think carefully as we add to the numbers of those who worship Allah.

 

[LadyEagle]

Excellent Post, Dragoon68.

 

[Rooselk]

It is well documented and predicted that Europe is becoming islamitized. That is evidenced by churches, which have been around for years, being turned into mosques. How do you think this happens? One slippery slope after another. Once you give satan a foot hold, it becomes a strong hold. Or as arabs like to say, once the camel has his nose under the tent, it isn't long until the whole camel is in the tent.

Too bad many Americans refuse to see what is coming. Perhaps they are too terrified themselves and it is easier to live in denial of what history has shown us about the sword of islam.

So, let me ask you, MP, what do you think would happen if 500,000 or 1 million muslims decided to go door to door in America and start slaughtering? Or decided to start blowing up sporting events or malls or colleges? Do you think the feds would be able to stop the carnage? Do you think they would try? (Remember Katrina) Or do you think moderate American muslims would step up to the plate and defend the infidels?

Sounds like pretty scary stuff. Perhaps we should have a Crusade like they did in the middle ages. I mean those worked out real well, didn't they? And even though Jesus said that we are to love our enemies, if we can tweek our theology just a little bit I'm sure we can manage to figure a way to make that mean that he really meant that we are to kill our enemies.

Anyone up for a little 'final solution"?

(lest anyone think I'm serious, let me set the record straight in saying that I am appauled that anyone who would call themselves a Christian could actually spew the kind of hatred that is coming from LadyEagle. At the very least that kind of hatred borders on the paranoid and is in fact no better than that coming from the religious fanatics she condemns.)

 

[Petra-O IX]

All mankind is fundamentally evil and in need of salvation from their just punishment of death and eternal separation from God. Christians are merely the imperfect followers chosen by the only perfect One.

As followers we need to obey the perfect will of God and seek to be less imperfect. Is it possible? -- Most likely not but we are only righteous through Christ alone and too often the imperfect Christian seeks to do works through their own righteousness.

I'm not aware of a bona fide Christian group - certainly not one acting according to Biblical doctrine - that advocates murdering those who are not followers of Jesus Christ just because they're not.

Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?’ And then will I profess unto them, ‘I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.’” (Matthew 7:21-23)
No maybe not bona fide and maybe some that are considered bona fide but not abiding fully into the word of God.

We're facing a great threat by the influx of non-Christian religions - especially the radical Islamic religion - into this country. The change will bring about nothing that's good and plenty that's bad. It is being brought about deliberately by those seeking to take over our land, change it to what they want it to be, and push us out in the process. This is being validated by our own people in the name of diversity.

When has there not been a time when this threat did not exist but we should not stoop to their level and become as equally radical.

The issue is not about tolerance for individuals and respecting the rights of our fellow humans to make their own decisions about what they believe and with who they congregate for worship. Only God can call those that He has chosen to His way. We can not force anyone to believe as we do and, even if we could, such belief would be corrupt by our still sinful nature.

We shouldn't tolerate a hate filled religion but neither should we advocate what a person should believe or practice, winning a person and even a culture over to Christ is not an easy task and will require the right kind of patience, so I say there will be some things we will have to tolerate (such as a person's refusal to accept Christ) but still continue to pursue winning souls over to Christ. So in a way it is about tolerating and respecting others to some degree, we would like to see the same apply to us.

The issue is about a group of such people who desire - as evidenced in their bible and by their violent intolerant practices - to destroy Christianity. We would be foolish to ignore that threat to the determent of our descendants

The issue also should not be about doing unto others as they would do unto us but that is what I am seeing these days.
Luke 6:31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise As imperfect Christians we really forget to do this a lot, I would include myself of being guilty of forgetting this one from time to time.

 

[amity]

We're facing a great threat by the influx of non-Christian religions - especially the radical Islamic religion - into this country. The change will bring about nothing that's good and plenty that's bad. It is being brought about deliberately by those seeking to take over our land, change it to what they want it to be, and push us out in the process. This is being validated by our own people in the name of diversity.

The issue is not about tolerance for individuals and respecting the rights of our fellow humans to make their own decisions about what they believe and with who they congregate for worship. Only God can call those that He has chosen to His way. We can not force anyone to believe as we do and, even if we could, such belief would be corrupt by our still sinful nature.

The issue is about a group of such people who desire - as evidenced in their bible and by their violent intolerant practices - to destroy Christianity. We would be foolish to ignore that threat to the determent of our descendants. We should not make it easy to come about by lending support through our own force of law. We can and should regulate who is permitted to come into this country and for what purposes. We'd best think carefully as we add to the numbers of those who worship Allah.

You two need to get more reliable information about Islam. What you are saying is:

1) Untrue.
2) Irresponsible.

If someone on Baptist Board reads your misinformation and goes out and commits a crime against Muslims as a result of what you have posted, you DO stand to be held liable. That is the law, and it is a law that I and I am sure others on this board do support. You and Lady Eagle and others have crossed way over the line here. And you stand to drag those who are seeking to serve Christ down with you.

And with that, I think I might be leaving Baptist Board ... unless a rule is made that hateful misrepresentations of other religions will not be tolerated. I came here seeking Christian discussion and debate. This is in no way bearing the love of Christ. Now at least go to Wikipedia or some other readily available "neutral" source and learn something about Islam.