A POSITIVE Emerging Illustration

[dan e.]

You are in a leadership position and you have absolutley NO understanding of conversion.

a bold statement

 

[preachinjesus]

From all of the posters on BB, your posts are the scare me the most. You are in a leadership position and you have absolutley NO understanding of conversion.

You're right I have no concept of what soteriology properly should be understood as in light of the teachings of the Scriptures. Thank you for presuming to know what my particular soteriological bent is too. Do keep in mind that just because I believe contextualizing things differently is fine, I still believe we need to tell people.:thumbsup:

One of the problems of the church of the past century was that our obligation for evangelism was just to tell people and that was it. I don't believe that is the case. Throughout the Gospels we see Jesus teaching and exampling relating to people as part of being effective witnesses. We don't need jerks for Jesus, someone standing on a corner telling people they are going to hell. We need people who are willing to back up the conviction of that with meaningful lives of sacrifice and service to others to be able to present a credible Gospel to a lost and dying world.

In the past you have posted "Preach the Gospel, and when absolutley necessary, use words" and now in this post your lifestyle evangelism views are showing once again. We do not need to go BE the Gospel to have people listen to the Gospel. We need to preach the Gospel and leave the results to God.

We must live the Gospel and live a Gospel centered life as we are telling people the Gospel. Notice Christ's words in Matthew 5:13-16

13"You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men.
14"You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. 15Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.

We are to be both salt and light. We are to be light, the truth in the culture around us. Also we are to be salt, the preservative quality in the culture around us. Christ is pointing out that while we certainly must be deliberate in telling people about the Gospel we must, absolutely must live in a way that is complimentary to the truth of that Gospel.

Christians must be the first to give a "cup of cold water" (Matthew 10:42) an act of service to those in need. Christ's teachings overwhelming focused on Christians being ready, willing, and able to do acts of service to those who are unloveable, untouchable, and undesirable in culture before ever getting a chance to tell them about God's story in our lives.

While we must be consistent in sharing our story we must be even more consistent in living the redemption story around us.

The absolute failure of a "just tell 'em" mindset is that we can just tell people the Gospel all the time and never have to back it up with credible efforts to minister to them.

There is no basis for this lifestyle evangelism that you constantly exhibit in your posts.

Where is there no basis for lifestyle evangelism? Christ's life was about relationships and not pure confrontation. Look at His relationships with the woman at the well (John 4) where Christ developed a line of communication to encourage this woman with the good news He was here to bring. Look at the relationships Christ had with harlots, drunkards, gamblers, and other ruffians of the day. Notice also how Christ would perform an act of service (often healing someone) before giving them a word about who He is. Christ's life was completely about providing realistic relationships lead to real conversations about faith.

I'm not saying you don't have to tell them, I'm saying that we should be servants first and tell them once we have established credibility. Particularly with those in our lives we encounter regularly who have seen us with our makeup off. We must present Christ well and get access to tell them more.

Notice Paul's words of encouragement along these lines: in 1 Thes. 2:8 We loved you so much that we were delighted to share with you not only the gospel of God but our lives as well, because you had become so dear to us.

We are to share our lives as well. I stand behind the statement "Preach the Gospel at all times, and use words if necessary." It is how we should live in this world. Live well and an honest testimony for Christ and when asked (when necessary) tell them about Christ.

Maybe you should ask me next time before making an assumption about my beliefs on this, or any matter.

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

The Emerging Church would like all to believe that they are about method and style but this is false. They are about theology as much as anything else. and they are in grave error.

 

[preachinjesus]

In reflecting on my time around here I've constantly come back to one thing that seems to stand out in my mind.

It is compelling...yes that is the word...that Christ only used forceful, condemning langauge and only seemed to ever confront (for the most part...I can think of one or two exceptions) the religious leaders and people of His day. You read the Gospels and never see Christ yelling at lost people or standing on a corner telling them they are going to hell without Him.

You only see Christ condemning the religious leaders of His day...never the lost people.

Seems appropriate to add.

 

[PastorSBC1303]

From all of the posters on BB, your posts are the scare me the most. You are in a leadership position and you have absolutley NO understanding of conversion.

As an 18 year old student, do you really think it is wise to go around throwing out criticisms of people who are serving the Lord based on just a few posts on a message board?

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

In reflecting on my time around here I've constantly come back to one thing that seems to stand out in my mind.

It is compelling...yes that is the word...that Christ only used forceful, condemning langauge and only seemed to ever confront (for the most part...I can think of one or two exceptions) the religious leaders and people of His day. You read the Gospels and never see Christ yelling at lost people or standing on a corner telling them they are going to hell without Him.

You only see Christ condemning the religious leaders of His day...never the lost people.

Seems appropriate to add.

Your caracature of those who you disagree with is incorrect as it is also incorrect to separate the religious leaders of Christs day from the lost. they were as lost as the day is long.

 

[Andy T.]

In reflecting on my time around here I've constantly come back to one thing that seems to stand out in my mind.

It is compelling...yes that is the word...that Christ only used forceful, condemning langauge and only seemed to ever confront (for the most part...I can think of one or two exceptions) the religious leaders and people of His day. You read the Gospels and never see Christ yelling at lost people or standing on a corner telling them they are going to hell without Him.

You only see Christ condemning the religious leaders of His day...never the lost people.

Seems appropriate to add.

I guess Paul, Peter and the other apostles were wrong in their method, because all throughout Acts you see them preaching to the lost. They didn't "yell" at people either. Since when do our options have to be limited to either "yelling" at the lost, or being all feel-good and relational with everyone? Talk about strawman.

 

[dan e.]

There is no basis for this lifestyle evangelism that you constantly exhibit in your posts.

Have you read the gospels?

Where is anything prohibiting a lifestyle evangelism....don't you think your lifestyle should be to evangelize?? Or are you saying you just need talk to people?

 

[saturneptune]

You know what I would like to know? I would like to know what any of you have done to help your neighbor lately? (second great command)

 

[preachinjesus]

I guess Paul, Peter and the other apostles were wrong in their method, because all throughout Acts you see them preaching to the lost. They didn't "yell" at people either. Since when do our options have to be limited to either "yelling" at the lost, or being all feel-good and relational with everyone? Talk about strawman.

Well it is more of an observation than a direct point. Also I am not drawing a comparison between one or the other...I am saying that there is more to being a consistent witness than just leaving a Gospel tract (and poor tip...or good tip for that matter) for a waitress, or talking with someone on the street, or getting up on national television and saying thus and such is an abomination, stuff like that are different from Christ's example. Notice my above post which was before the one you quoted and you'll see more examples of that.:flower:

You will also notice, since we are pointing at Acts, one of the first acts of the Church was to appoint seven men to serve women in need. The Church was said to have flourished because of the serve first attitude there. Equally interesting is that one of the hallmarks of the early Church in the book of Acts was dividing their belongings and giving freely to those in need. I can go on but to simply say Peter, Paul, and Larry went around preaching at people is the be all and end all of evangelism in Acts is wrongheaded.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

You know what I would like to know? I would like to know what any of you have done to help your neighbor lately? (second great command)

I sent some letters out against them for their ugly yards. :laugh: :laugh:

 

[ReformedBaptist]

you have some presuppositions that are not necessarilly true in this:

1) the message changing because of their methods
2) based off of Willow Creek/Purpose driven
3) reprobation

Lots of other assumptions, which are your rightful opinions based on your preferences, but shouldn't be passed on as fact.

Read through the posts since I was on last, and methinks you might just wanted to pick a fight. :laugh:

In this post, to which you responded, this particular one, are many personal opinions and impressions. No question there. It is my personal impression of this church. What I responded to factually was in my initial post. I responded to the facts, and the only facts, that were presented by you for this discussion. From there you proceed to charge me with wrongdoing for responding to facts that weren't even presented in the article!

Later, your demanding respect for this church when I don't have any facts to give me cause to, but the facts I DO have give me cause to question their evangelistic methodology.

Whatever axe you have to grind here, let me tell you how it made me feel. You invited the board to read the article and respond to. When they did, and you got responses you didn't like or appreciate, you sought to engage them in a debate.

This just seems unfruitful to me.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

preachinjesus,

We don't need jerks for Jesus, someone standing on a corner telling people they are going to hell.

I see that your in Georgia too. Was that you a few weeks back when we went out to preach the Gospel and give tracts that despised the work we were doing?

I have had more opposition from Christians in the preaching of the Gospel than from atheists and pagans. Now there is what I think Jesus opposed...religous folk sitting smug on a park bench, embarrased at the saints of God while they labor in the Vineyard.

 

[webdog]

I sent some letters out against them for their ugly yards. :laugh: :laugh:

You would be a good neighbor to me if you'd slip one of those letters in the mail to my neighbor on the left

 

[ReformedBaptist]

As an 18 year old student, do you really think it is wise to go around throwing out criticisms of people who are serving the Lord based on just a few posts on a message board?

What age was Jeremiah when God called Him and gave him His Word to preach to Israel. Wasn't it about 14 years of age? Seem that youth has 4 years on him.

If he speaks the truth, well, if not, correct it. But do not look down on him in spiritual things because he is young, or as if God has not called him to preach His Word to you.

 

[webdog]

preachinjesus,



I see that your in Georgia too. Was that you a few weeks back when we went out to preach the Gospel and give tracts that despised the work we were doing?

I have had more opposition from Christians in the preaching of the Gospel than from atheists and pagans. Now there is what I think Jesus opposed...religous folk sitting smug on a park bench, embarrased at the saints of God while they labor in the Vineyard.

I think what he was referring to were the Phelps like street preaching...you know wearing sandwich signs and yelling at people while they walk by.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

I think what he was referring to were the Phelps like street preaching...you know wearing sandwich signs and yelling at people while they walk by.

Oh. Yeah, that Phelps fellow has "issues" lol

We were just acting normal, dressed in white robes, wore fake beards to look "ancient" and ran around yelling "Repent! Repent!"

Just kidding, we thought just preaching the Gospel and talking with folks was a good way to share the Gospel.

 

[JustChristian]

That's a sad statement, that clearning barbershops and washing dogs is seen in 21st century Christianity as 'living out the Good News.'

You quote Spurgeon about fruit from the root. I would agree that the most important fruit is sharing the gospel with someone. However, Christ told us to love our neighbor. How do we do that? By meeting their needs both spiritual and physical. BTW, do you think that man whose barborship was spruced up might just hjave started going to the church either that one or another one?

 

[preachinjesus]

I see that your in Georgia too. Was that you a few weeks back when we went out to preach the Gospel and give tracts that despised the work we were doing?

We were just acting normal, dressed in white robes, wore fake beards to look "ancient" and ran around yelling "Repent! Repent!"

It was you!

lol...actually until you invade my space and tell me I'm going to hell I don't say anything other than wise words of personal encouragement. Now when you cross the line (as happened once while I was downtown) and I happen to be with several other seminary students having just completed a Greek study group...um, you're on your own. Let's say that wasn't a happy night for that group. :laugh:

I have had more opposition from Christians in the preaching of the Gospel than from atheists and pagans.

I actually don't endorse street preaching. Granted I've done it, but in an increasingly post-Christian culture (not to say the US was ever Christian) I don't see it as an effective way of connecting people to the Gospel of Christ. We must approach people at a level of credibility as we speak the Gospel truth. Street preaching in a post-Christian culture will illicit the same response you got...apathy and uninterest...as unchurched and dechurched people reinforce their opposition to the Gospel. While some are indeed saved, I don't believe it is an effective way to reach people. Just my belief. Thanks for being consistent and your work for the Gospel.:thumbs:

 

[ReformedBaptist]

It was you!

lol...actually until you invade my space and tell me I'm going to hell I don't say anything other than wise words of personal encouragement. Now when you cross the line (as happened once while I was downtown) and I happen to be with several other seminary students having just completed a Greek study group...um, you're on your own. Let's say that wasn't a happy night for that group.



I actually don't endorse street preaching. Granted I've done it, but in an increasingly post-Christian culture (not to say the US was ever Christian) I don't see it as an effective way of connecting people to the Gospel of Christ. We must approach people at a level of credibility as we speak the Gospel truth. Street preaching in a post-Christian culture will illicit the same response you got...apathy and uninterest...as unchurched and dechurched people reinforce their opposition to the Gospel. While some are indeed saved, I don't believe it is an effective way to reach people. Just my belief. Thanks for being consistent and your work for the Gospel.:thumbs:

Brother, if you don't repent and believe the Gospel you are going to hell. :laugh:

But I believe you have. When I preach the Gospel, whether its street preaching (I may share a testimony publically, but typically I share one-on-one with those who are willing to stop and talk) I seek to preach the whole counsel of God. If indeed America is "post-Christian" then to tell someone Jesus loves them and died for them is doomed to failure. They don't even know they are sinners!

I preach repentance and faith in Christ. I preach sin and judgment to come. My primary purpose as a witness of Christ IS NOT to win the lost. It is NOT to be effective. Hear me on this. It is not my primary purpose. My primary purpose is to glorify God and faithfully preach the Gospel. When the Gospel is preached people WILL repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. The purpose and Redemption of Christ secured that. Of course, this doesn't mean go out there an act like a moron.

As for street preaching, I see it as "a" mode in which to preach the Gospel, not the only one. And, while I respect your belief, it has been fruitful. I have seen many over the years have their hearts opened and turn to the Lord through street preaching. As for it being effective in a post-Christian society i.e. popular, well-received, et. I don't think it was any more well-excepted when the Apostles did it.

I am always open to hearing what others are doing, where they are going, et. To preach the Gospel. Let me share one of the things I did to take the Gospel to the lost. I learned of a coffee house having an open mic night for bands. After a few satantic death metal bands finsished their thrashing I too the stage with my guitar and sang praise to our Lord Jesus Christ. You could hear a pin drop in the place. Afterwords, there were many fruitful conversations and not a few who despised, mocked, and threatend to kill me. (indeed, one person did)

Another is going with a group to a popular hangour (starbucks, universites, et) and begining a discussion on religion. O how discussions, if they are slightly loud enough, will bring others into the convo.

I'd love to hear what you guys are doing to bring the Gospel to lost.