A question about Calvinisum

[Brother Bob]

Quote:
Mary in the scriptures and I choose the good part, which is to follow Jesus Christ, along with countless others.
Isn't that nice. I am glad you were so much better than all of those that weren't smart enough to choose the way you did.

You chose to bring a baby into the world by the help of God (which is beautiful, BTW), If I chose to serve God, who are you to say I didn't. Also, Jesus said now that He has come, people like you don't have no cloak for their sin. So don't be making excuses. Anyway, you are the lucky one, God grabbed you by the hair of the head and saved you.

 

[webdog]

As were the Jews of the Dispersion. (strangers scattered...)

Thank you, Blammo. They weren't strangers to HIM...they were strangers to the land...but still Jews, James

 

[Jarthur001]

Thank you, Blammo. They weren't strangers to HIM...they were strangers to the land...but still Jews, James

2 Peter

2Pe 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

2Pe 1:2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that [pertain] unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

I guess this is to the jews ONLY too?

 

[webdog]

2 Peter

I guess this is to the jews ONLY too?

Yep...
2Pe 3:1 Dear friends, this is now the second letter I've written you; in both, I awaken your pure understanding with a reminder,

 

[Jarthur001]

How about this book? Just to the Jews again?
1 Thessalonians

1Th 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians [which is] in God the Father and [in] the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace [be] unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1Th 1:2 We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers;

1Th 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

 

[Blammo]

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

All scripture is profitable for our edification, James, but it is not all addressed to us.

From Abbott New Testament Commentary:

1Pe 1:1. Strangers. This Epistle is addressed to Jewish Christians residing in the various provinces of Asia Minor
here specified. Jews residing in countries foreign to Judea were called strangers, being such in the land where they were
dwelling.--Asia; a certain province of Asia Minor, including Phrygia, Mysia, Caria, Lydia, &c., being the western and
south-western part. The other provinces mentioned here are situated in the northern and eastern part of the same
country. So that, in a word, this Epistle is addressed to the Jewish Christians of Asia Minor.

 

[webdog]

How about this book? Just to the Jews again?
1 Thessalonians

Not dealing with the "elect". This is a letter of encouragement to believers reassuring them that they are chosen by God already as believers. This is what I mean that you cannot always use "chosen" and "elect" the exact same way as calvinists do.

 

[Jarthur001]

Are you saying only the Jews can claim these truths???

Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? [shall] tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[webdog]

All believing Jews (elect) can, but so can gentiles IN CHRIST.

 

[Jarthur001]

Yep...
2Pe 3:1 Dear friends, this is now the second letter I've written you; in both, I awaken your pure understanding with a reminder,

YEP??

Now read the whole thing...

2Pe 1:1 ¶ Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

2Pe 1:2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that [pertain] unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

2Pe 1:5 ¶ And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

2Pe 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

2Pe 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

2Pe 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make [you that ye shall] neither [be] barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

 

[webdog]

And your point is.....?
Who is 2 Peter written to? Their "election" was as Israel, and only those Israelites IN CHRIST truly make up the elect. In order to claim the promises of being God's chosen people from the lines of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, their faith needed to be IN CHRIST...meaning they had to examine themselves to claim whether they were "elect" based on heritage or faith.

 

[Jarthur001]

Again read more....

1Th 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians [which is] in God the Father and [in] the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace [be] unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.


1Th 1:2 We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers;


1Th 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;


1Th 1:4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

 

[webdog]

James, I'm failing to see what you don't understand. Paul (Jew)...brethern (Jews)...Paul (Jew IN CHRIST)...brethern (Jews IN CHRIST).

 

[Jarthur001]

Going by your rules..

1 peter is addressing only the jews...so elect does not apply to "others" in this verse. So you say.

So when a verse addresses "the elect"..so you say...it only applies to Jews.
Therefore what you are saying is...only Jews can claim, 1 peter, 2 peter, Thessalonians and now...Romans

Rom 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? [It is] God that justifieth.

Rom 8:34 Who [is] he that condemneth? [It is] Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? [shall] tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Is this what you are saying? This applies only to the jews?

 

[Jarthur001]

Was Paul a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ accrding to the faith of the Jews???????????

Tts 1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

Tts 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Tts 1:3 But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;

Tts 1:4 To Titus, [mine] own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, [and] peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.

Tts 1:5 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:

 

[Jarthur001]

oh look.....we have Jewish angels and non-Jewish angels. I didn't know that.

1Ti 5:21 I charge [thee] before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.

 

[webdog]

Is Romans 8 not a preclusion to the jewish problem in regards to God's sovereignty(ch. 9), the jewish problem in regards to human responsibility (ch. 10), and the jewish problem in regards to God's final purpose (ch. 11)?
Romans as a whole is a systematic presentation of the Gospel, which wasn't something "new"...it wasn't a complete break from the past, but was rather a fulfillment of what was deeply rooted in history. From the beginning of the book (1:3) we see that the Gospel is inseperably related to Israel as a nation. Christ Himself even stated such in John 4:22.

 

[webdog]

oh look.....we have Jewish angels and non-Jewish angels. I didn't know that.

I stated from the beginning that there is a label of "elect" attached to angels. Angels aren't humans though Any form of "elect" in reference to humans are in regards to true Israel...that which recognizes Christ as Messiah.

 

[Jarthur001]

Looks like Paul changed his mind have way though this.....

Col 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond [nor] free: but Christ [is] all, and in all.

Col 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

Col 3:13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also [do] ye.

1st he was saying we were all the same IN CHRIST....but now really he meant only Jews holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering,.....

Ok...now I understand.

 

[Jarthur001]

I stated from the beginning that there is a label of "elect" attached to angels. Angels aren't humans though Any form of "elect" in reference to humans are in regards to true Israel...that which recognizes Christ as Messiah.

Never mind. There is no changing you. Believe what you want.

I think its funny

Elect means Choosen....not Jewish. You can say any thing you want...but still it means choosen. Its where we get the word...well...election. We elect someone to office. We chose.

The Jews are the elect in the OT...choosen by God. In the NT we have the Jews as a nation on hold...and God has a people...chosen by Him in the body of the church. Yet each member is choosen By God.

It is clear...but I'll not try to force it on ya.