A question about Calvinisum

[webdog]

Unfortunately, your correct opinion happens to be incorrect

Did I state anywhere that all jews are elect? Anyone can come from the line of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? Interesting...

More lack of Scripture (and hot air). If your "correct" understanding is indeed correct, maybe you will be able to do something James was not...provide Scripture stating those called the "elect" are in reference to gentiles.

 

[Jarthur001]

Unfortunately, your correct opinion happens to be incorrect

Did I state anywhere that all jews are elect? Anyone can come from the line of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? Interesting...

More lack of Scripture (and hot air). If your "correct" understanding is indeed correct, maybe you will be able to do something James was not...provide Scripture stating those called the "elect" are in reference to gentiles.

This was shown to you yesterday....
how soon you forget.

1Th 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians [which is] in God the Father and [in] the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace [be] unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1Th 1:2 We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers;

1Th 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;


1Th 1:4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

Col 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond [nor] free: but Christ [is] all, and in all.

Col 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

Col 3:13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also [do] ye.

We cannot help it if you want to believe incorrect doctrine. All we can do is post the verses

As said yesterday...election is "TO" salvation..or as your translation said..."FOR" salvation.

Rom. 11:7
"What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election (elect) hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded"

2 Thess. 2:13
"God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation"

you said..HOW?

How?

2Th 2:13 But we must always thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God has chosen you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and through belief in the truth.

this is how....
1) through sanctification by the Spirit
2) through belief in the truth

But why???????

1)for salvation.
2)...there is no number 2. This is it.

How about when??

1) from the beginning

But why???????

1)for salvation.

FOR SALVATION.

say it with me..."God has chosen you for salvation"

 

[Jarthur001]

1 Thessalonians and who Paul is addressing in context

Chapter 1
9For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;

Chapter 2
14For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:

 

[reformedbeliever]

1 Thessalonians and who Paul is addressing in context

Chapter 1
9For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;

Chapter 2
14For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:

Thank you brother James for straightening webdog out for me. I was busy trying to straighten out Helen. Think we will ever succeed? lol Grace and peace.

 

[webdog]

Thank you brother James for straightening webdog out for me. I was busy trying to straighten out Helen. Think we will ever succeed? lol Grace and peace.

Probably not, because James will keep posting the same things over and over again. I discussed that Scripture with him yesterday. If he wants to pretend we didn't, that's fine, but all one has to do is go back through the thread to see it.

*sniff, sniff* I smell arrogance seeping into this thread. Don't become a victim to self sufficiency like Baptist Pastor / Theologian (the one James said should write a book ).... BANNED!

 

[webdog]

This was shown to you yesterday....
how soon you forget.





We cannot help it if you want to believe incorrect doctrine. All we can do is post the verses

As said yesterday...election is "TO" salvation..or as your translation said..."FOR" salvation.





you said..HOW?

How?

2Th 2:13 But we must always thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God has chosen you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and through belief in the truth.

this is how....
1) through sanctification by the Spirit
2) through belief in the truth

But why???????

1)for salvation.
2)...there is no number 2. This is it.

How about when??

1) from the beginning

But why???????

1)for salvation.

FOR SALVATION.

say it with me..."God has chosen you for salvation"

James, let's try again...chosen and elect are not always one in the same! As was pointed out to you earlier, the elect are always chosen, but the chosen aren't always the elect. This was debated with you yesterday, and you still are too stubborn to realize when you are wrong.

 

[Jarthur001]

James, let's try again...chosen and elect are not always one in the same! As was pointed out to you earlier, the elect are always chosen, but the chosen aren't always the elect. This was debated with you yesterday, and you still are too stubborn to realize when you are wrong.

Are you saying this is not the elect?

1Th 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians [which is] in God the Father and [in] the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace [be] unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1Th 1:2 We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers;

1Th 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;


1Th 1:4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

1 Thessalonians and who Paul is addressing in context

Chapter 1
9For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;

Chapter 2
14For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:

And how about this....is this not talking about the elect?

2Th 2:13 But we must always thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God has chosen you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and through belief in the truth.

If its not the elct, who is it?

 

[webdog]

Yes, that is in reference to the elect. I'm not getting your point. I have said that all the elect are chosen, but all those chosen are not the elect.

 

[Jarthur001]

Yes, that is in reference to the elect. I'm not getting your point. I have said that all the elect are chosen, but all those chosen are not the elect.

whatever you say

 

[reformedbeliever]

Yes, that is in reference to the elect. I'm not getting your point. I have said that all the elect are chosen, but all those chosen are not the elect.

You say that elect always means the Jews. What about Deut. 7:6 where God was obviously talking about and to the Jews? He used the word chosen there. Why didn't He use elect? I do not agree with your deduction webdog. You will have to do better than that. Of course you can not see that when we are adopted as sons, we become the new Isreal. We become His elect or favored people.

G1588
ἐκλεκτός
eklektos
ek-lek-tos'
From G1586; select; by implication favorite: - chosen, elect.

To say the elect is always pertaining to the Jews conflicts with many (the majority) of Biblical scholars and commentaries. You will have to do better than to say it is so because you think so.

 

[Dale-c]

People who are sincere and want to know, I am willing to discuss with. But people who time after time show evidence of a hardened heart towards the doctrines of Grace seem that I would be best to go on.

Webdog has been shown the truth many, many times but until God opens his heart...there isn't a whole lot we can do.
Like beating a dead horse.

 

[webdog]

People who are sincere and want to know, I am willing to discuss with. But people who time after time show evidence of a hardened heart towards the doctrines of Grace seem that I would be best to go on.

Webdog has been shown the truth many, many times but until God opens his heart...there isn't a whole lot we can do.
Like beating a dead horse.

I'm sorry, Dale, but the "truth" that has been shown to me is hardly that. I was almost a full fledged five pointer at one point, so please, don't give me that garbage that God needs to open my heart to believe your false doctrine. God did open my heart to the truth, and I pray you allow Him to do the same.

 

[webdog]

You say that elect always means the Jews. What about Deut. 7:6 where God was obviously talking about and to the Jews? He used the word chosen there. Why didn't He use elect? I do not agree with your deduction webdog. You will have to do better than that. Of course you can not see that when we are adopted as sons, we become the new Isreal. We become His elect or favored people.

G1588
ἐκλεκτός
eklektos
ek-lek-tos'
From G1586; select; by implication favorite: - chosen, elect.

To say the elect is always pertaining to the Jews conflicts with many (the majority) of Biblical scholars and commentaries. You will have to do better than to say it is so because you think so.

I never claimed elect were only jews. The phrase is attached to BELIEVING jews. Huge difference. Not all Israel is Israel (elect). You must fail to read my posts thoroughly, and read into them what you wish. The offer is still on the table for you, James, Dale, whoever to show where the phrase "the elect" are attached to gentiles...IN CONTEXT.

 

[reformedbeliever]

I never claimed elect were only jews. The phrase is attached to BELIEVING jews. Huge difference. Not all Israel is Israel (elect). You must fail to read my posts thoroughly, and read into them what you wish. The offer is still on the table for you, James, Dale, whoever to show where the phrase "the elect" are attached to gentiles...IN CONTEXT.

In the majority of the places the word is used. You just will not believe it.

 

[J.D.]

I never claimed elect were only jews. The phrase is attached to BELIEVING jews. Huge difference. Not all Israel is Israel (elect). You must fail to read my posts thoroughly, and read into them what you wish. The offer is still on the table for you, James, Dale, whoever to show where the phrase "the elect" are attached to gentiles...IN CONTEXT.

Let me see if I understand what you're saying - when the bible says "Who shall lay anything to the charge of God's elect", that only applies to believing jews? Is that what you're saying?

 

[reformedbeliever]

Let me see if I understand what you're saying - when the bible says "Who shall lay anything to the charge of God's elect", that only applies to believing jews? Is that what you're saying?

I'm not webdog, but yep, that seems to be what he is saying. He might go on the say that all the Jews are God's elect as a nation, but not necessarily for salvation, and to that I'd agree. But it seems that when elect is mentioned in the Bible, it can only be to Jews.... according to webdog.

 

[J.D.]

I'm not webdog, but yep, that seems to be what he is saying. He might go on the say that all the Jews are God's elect as a nation, but not necessarily for salvation, and to that I'd agree. But it seems that when elect is mentioned in the Bible, it can only be to Jews.... according to webdog.

Hmmmmm.... kinda reminds me of hyper-dispensationalism. The jews get this, the gentiles that, before Paul this, after Paul that, etc.

 

[webdog]

Hmmmmm.... kinda reminds me of hyper-dispensationalism. The jews get this, the gentiles that, before Paul this, after Paul that, etc.

Not even close.

 

[webdog]

I'm not webdog, but yep, that seems to be what he is saying. He might go on the say that all the Jews are God's elect as a nation, but not necessarily for salvation, and to that I'd agree. But it seems that when elect is mentioned in the Bible, it can only be to Jews.... according to webdog.

Let me ask you who is considered the "church"? Did God lead the "church" out of Egypt?

 

[reformedbeliever]

Let me ask you who is considered the "church"? Did God lead the "church" out of Egypt?

The church is now made up of all believers.