A question about Calvinisum

You didn't answer the question. Did God lead the "church" out of Egypt?

 

He led His people out of egypt... His people as a nation. His people now are His church. Sorry if you don't like my answer.

 

...or rather your non answer. I take from this, though, that the Church was led out of Egypt, something I do not agree with. Church was used at a certain point in time, as was elect.

 

No, it was an answer, it just didn't please you.

 

No...it wasn't the answer to the question I asked. Your answer did not contain the word "church" in it, as far as the time Moses led the Israelites out of Egypt, so no...you did not answer it.

 

aaaaaaw...hold on.


yes it did..

So now what is wrong?
You cannot use chosen...even thought it measn the same as election.

you have been shown election comes before salvation...

You will not address it.

Now what???

 

I edited my response before you posted this. His answer..."He led His people out of egypt... His people as a nation. His people now are His church. Sorry if you don't like my answer."

OK...His people NOW are the Church, were His people called "the Church" being led out of Egypt? Why or why not?

I will not address what? God sovereignly elects, yes. This does not mean He sovereignly elects UNTO salvation, nor does that mean God is limited to "before" and "after" as you believe.

 

Acts: 7

34: I have seen, I have seen the affliction of my people which is in Egypt, and I have heard their groaning, and am come down to deliver them. And now come, I will send thee into Egypt.
35: This Moses whom they refused, saying, Who made thee a ruler and a judge? the same did God send to be a ruler and a deliverer by the hand of the angel which appeared to him in the bush.
36: He brought them out, after that he had shewed wonders and signs in the land of Egypt, and in the Red sea, and in the wilderness forty years.
37: This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.
38: This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

 

Who did God bring out of Egypt? Isreal. We are the new Isreal. The elect.

 

Pretty clear to me.


Election 1st...
then Gods grace of salvation.

 

So Israel is reffered to as the old church?

 

If you say so.

 

It what the scripture says.

Acts:
34: I have seen, I have seen the affliction of my people which is in Egypt, and I have heard their groaning, and am come down to deliver them. And now come, I will send thee into Egypt.
35: This Moses whom they refused, saying, Who made thee a ruler and a judge? the same did God send to be a ruler and a deliverer by the hand of the angel which appeared to him in the bush.
36: He brought them out, after that he had shewed wonders and signs in the land of Egypt, and in the Red sea, and in the wilderness forty years.
37: This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.
38: This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

 

Some say yes. Bob is one.

Church means gathering of believers. So it could mean it if you want it to.

Other say the church started in the NT when Christ started preaching

Still others claim the Church started after the death...

Others see it starting in Acts.

This is wide open. I fail to see your point.

 

What was there to obtain if it were allready given?

 

Yes...maybe we should take that out of our Bible. :BangHead:

 

You will never get past these scriptures!

Eph; 2
"12": That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

"13": But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

"14": For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

"15": Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

"16": And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

"17": And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

"18": For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

"19": Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

Who do you think the household of God was he talking about?

 

Why? It doesn't support what you say

 

The point is the "elect" is can be wide open also, but in context this phrase is attached to believing jews.

 

Bob,

You give good points on the church of the OT. I read most of what you said in the "church thread". I'm not as dogmatic on this view as I am others. I know how I like to take a stand and fight on all things...well...not so much on this one. I kinda leave it open for I see good points on all sides. My pastor as a child use to teach this, but my Father disagreed. I know the sides..but I will not bring a big debate over this one.

This is pretty much the views of covenant thelogy. So I wanted to ask if you are covenant. This has nothing to do with the thread...just wanted to know.