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A question about Heaven

A

Aaron

Member
Site Supporter
Salty said:
When
and where was God when he created HEaven?
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One can't think of eternity as we think of linear time, another creation, in this world, which has a beginning and an end. Eternity has no beginning and no end, therefore, points on an eternal 'timeline' are meaningless, as is the imagining of an infinite timeline where no time exists.

One has to realize that thinking of Heaven as a location or world that 'contains' God, is also fleshly thinking and vanity. The Heaven of Heavens cannot contain Him, and it has not entered into the mind of man, neither indeed can it, Heaven and the glories thereof.

'Where and when was God when he created Heaven' is a foolish question. If you concede that God has no beginning, one could ask when and where was God 'before' He created angels? What was God doing in the eternity past prior to that (speaking like a man) 'moment'?
 
T

tyndale1946

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I'm surprised that one that would start this OP is a preacher... Really???... You would be better off Salty, if you rephrased the OP as you responded in post #14... So mortal men like myself, unless God tells us I don't concern myself with it, it is an exercise in futility... Brother Glen:)

Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
canadyjd said:
Are you claiming God the Son has “eternally self-limited” His attributes in the Godhead?
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Not as God, but as the Son. They are three distinct Persons. But one and the same God.
Mark 13:32, Jesus further explains in Acts of the Apostles 1:7.

The Son limits His omniscience on behalf of God as God. He said truthfully to Abraham, in Genesis 22:12, ". . . And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from Me. . . ." God is fully omniscient, and by way of His Son truthfully limited His Omniscience through His Son. Because they are different Persons God can honestly do this. Also John 1:18 KJV, NKJV.
 
canadyjd

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
Not as God, but as the Son. They are three distinct Persons. But one and the same God.
Mark 13:32, Jesus further explains in Acts of the Apostles 1:7.

The Son limits His omniscience on behalf of God as God. He said truthfully to Abraham, in Genesis 22:12, ". . . And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from Me. . . ." God is fully omniscient, and by way of His Son truthfully limited His Omniscience through His Son. Because they are different Persons God can honestly do this. Also John 1:18 KJV, NKJV.
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I think I understand what you are saying. There are places in scripture, OT, where God appears to not know something. He asked Adam if he ate from the tree. The encounter you mentioned with Abraham.

I disagree that the way to explain it is that the Son has eternally limited His omniscience.

I view it more along the lines of God condescending to us, to speak to us in a manner we can understand in order to elicit the response from us that He desires.

peace to you
 
J

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
Not as God, but as the Son. They are three distinct Persons. But one and the same God.
Mark 13:32, Jesus further explains in Acts of the Apostles 1:7.

The Son limits His omniscience on behalf of God as God. He said truthfully to Abraham, in Genesis 22:12, ". . . And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from Me. . . ." God is fully omniscient, and by way of His Son truthfully limited His Omniscience through His Son. Because they are different Persons God can honestly do this. Also John 1:18 KJV, NKJV.
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No, the ONLY time God could limit Himself was in the Incarnation, and that was only for the time was born and died, and once risen, fully all knowing again!
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
Servant of Lord Jesus said:
Yes, but he was not at that time limited in a physical human flesh as he assumed on in the Incarnation!
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He being both man and the omnipresent God per John 3:13 KJV, NKJV. And Hebrews 1:3, ". . . upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, . . ."
 
J

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
canadyjd said:
I think I understand what you are saying. There are places in scripture, OT, where God appears to not know something. He asked Adam if he ate from the tree. The encounter you mentioned with Abraham.

I disagree that the way to explain it is that the Son has eternally limited His omniscience.

I view it more along the lines of God condescending to us, to speak to us in a manner we can understand in order to elicit the response from us that He desires.

peace to you
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You see this correctgly, for the ONLY time God ever limited Himself in any way was when he came as Jesus, and while in human flesh the Second person of the trinity agreed to accept limitations now!
 
J

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
He being both man and the omnipresent God per John 3:13 KJV, NKJV. And Hebrews 1:3, ". . . upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, . . ."
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Before the incarnation, he never was not all knowing, powerful etc!
 
J

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
Not as God, but as the Son. They are three distinct Persons. But one and the same God.
Mark 13:32, Jesus further explains in Acts of the Apostles 1:7.

The Son limits His omniscience on behalf of God as God. He said truthfully to Abraham, in Genesis 22:12, ". . . And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from Me. . . ." God is fully omniscient, and by way of His Son truthfully limited His Omniscience through His Son. Because they are different Persons God can honestly do this. Also John 1:18 KJV, NKJV.
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the ONLY time ever any Person of the Godhead experienced any limitations was when The Second person of the trinity accepted limitations of becoming fully human!
 
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