A question about Noah...

[percho]

You are way off topic confusing eschatology with soteriology. There is no doubt that Abraham believed God, and God imputed to him righteousness. Thus the rest of your post is moot. Abraham was a saved individual even if he never saw the "promises."

Maybe I am confused.

1 Cor 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God;

Is to inherit salvation the same as inheriting the kingdom of God and inheriting eternal life?

Does the great salvation of Heb. 2 that we are not to neglect which Christ first began to preach have anything to the world to come see verse 5. Is that the kingdom of God?

Just what world do you think Paul believed Abraham is heir to in Romans 4?

Will Abraham be in the kingdom of God? Luke 13

Is this the same kingdom of God one has to be born into in order to enter?

And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Just what do you thing these Jews and Greeks who become Abraham's seed through Christ inherit?

We are heirs of the hope of eternal life in the kingdom of God. The gift of God.

For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

Abraham does not have that yet nor anyone else other than Jesus the Christ.

What you have is Christ in you the hope of glory.

 

[DHK]

Practice what you preach here and quit posting yourself.

That and simmer down eh?

You've stated Calvinist theology is myth, but the fact is your theology is mythical an erroneous.

You've been schooled and owned on faith is a gift many times over, on here, and from God's Word. :wavey:

I know it must bother you that you feel I've studied Augustine and Calvin, yet I haven't, and that in fact it's your theology which resembles RCC, not mine.

Maybe you're reading Augustine now, yes?

If you can't post Scripture to defend your post, I suggest to another moderator to simply start deleting your posts. You are just wasting time and space. If you can't post Scripture to demonstrate that God gives faith to the unregenerate (and we know he doesn't), then at least be man enough to admit it.

 

[percho]

The gift of God is salvation.
The gift of God is eternal life.

Never is faith called the gift of God. That is error on your part.
Faith is never given to the unregenerate or unsaved, and you have never been able to show otherwise.

Well you finely got something right.

The gift of God is eternal life that is salvation.

Faith is what justified you that you might be given the gift of God.
Justification comes because of faith.

Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ,

Now what was this act of faith Jesus did that justifies you?

Romans 5:9 being now justified by his blood, his dying justified and reconciled you to God that ye might receive eternal life.

Jesus dying was the faith that justified you. Through his resurrection you will be able to be given eternal life. If he had just died that would not have been enough. He had to be raised or there would not have been any life to give you.

1 Cor 15:16-18 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: And if Christ be not raised, your faith [is] vain; ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

Or am I confused again???

 

[DHK]

Maybe I am confused.

1 Cor 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God;

The verse is often taken out of context. They cannot "inherit" the kingdom of God. But someday we will enter the kingdom of God.

Is to inherit salvation the same as inheriting the kingdom of God and inheriting eternal life?

No, I was given eternal life the day I was saved. It is the gift of God.
See Romans 6:23: The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life. I may die some day physically; but I will never die spiritually for I have eternal life.
--Depending on your view of eschatology, if the kingdom of God is the Millennial Kingdom, yes some day I will inherit that. I will gain entrance because I am saved; because I already have eternal life. The same is true for Abraham. Righteousness was imputed unto him (Rom.4:3).

Does the great salvation of Heb. 2 that we are not to neglect which Christ first began to preach have anything to the world to come see verse 5. Is that the kingdom of God?

No, that is salvation through Christ, by faith.

Just what world do you think Paul believed Abraham is heir to in Romans 4?

The same salvation that we have.

For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. (Romans 4:13)
And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. (Romans 4:22)

Will Abraham be in the kingdom of God? Luke 13

There is no reason to believe otherwise.

Is this the same kingdom of God one has to be born into in order to enter?

Jesus said to Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews, one who was looking for the Kingdom to come at any time:

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. (John 3:3)
--Taken in the historical context I believe it is.

And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Just what do you thing these Jews and Greeks who become Abraham's seed through Christ inherit?

Those who are Abraham's seed are believers in Christ. They inherit eternal life.

We are heirs of the hope of eternal life in the kingdom of God. The gift of God.

One comes before the other. One cannot have entrance into the kingdom of God without first having eternal life, the gift of God which comes at salvation.

For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

Abraham does not have that yet nor anyone else other than Jesus the Christ.

What you have is Christ in you the hope of glory.

If I have Christ, I have eternal life:

The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. (John 10:10)

 

[Iconoclast]

If you can't post Scripture to defend your post, I suggest to another moderator to simply start deleting your posts. You are just wasting time and space. If you can't post Scripture to demonstrate that God gives faith to the unregenerate (and we know he doesn't), then at least be man enough to admit it.

P4T has called you out on several of your false ideas....It is you who are consistently posting error.
You have several areas that you have been given scripture on...you just do not believe the verses,
Trying to censor P4T ....is not going to correct your false ideas.There are many non cals who rarely if ever use a verse...or even mis-use a verse,and yet you remain silent to them.
Do not be hypocritical here.Work on your own errors.

 

[quantumfaith]

P4T has called you out on several of your false ideas....It is you who are consistently posting error.
You have several areas that you have been given scripture on...you just do not believe the verses,
Trying to censor P4T ....is not going to correct your false ideas.There are many non cals who rarely if ever use a verse...or even mis-use a verse,and yet you remain silent to them.
Do not be hypocritical here.Work on your own errors.

Icon,

DHK had defended himself consistently and appropriately. Without question he (others including myself) consider many of your ideas to be in error (or as you say "false ideas") I do agree that it was not appropriate to call out P4T for the simple fact of not providing some "supporting scripture" unless (and I do not know the context of the disagreement) the crux of the issue came down to a claim of "what scripture says". Don't be presumptuous and tell someone to "work on their errors" without at least a minimal nod to the possibility that you (me and all others) operate with that very same possibility.

 

[Iconoclast]

Icon,

DHK had defended himself consistently and appropriately. Without question he (others including myself) consider many of your ideas to be in error (or as you say "false ideas") I do agree that it was not appropriate to call out P4T for the simple fact of not providing some "supporting scripture" unless (and I do not know the context of the disagreement) the crux of the issue came down to a claim of "what scripture says". Don't be presumptuous and tell someone to "work on their errors" without at least a minimal nod to the possibility that you (me and all others) operate with that very same possibility.

Qf...
You often support false ideas with your patented 4 thumbs up.
On page 14 of this thread you have DHK saying.....

[QUOTEOriginally Posted by DHK
The one that cannot provide the Scripture is the one that believes myths and Calvinistic stories. You have been brainwashed by an Augustinian RCC founder][/QUOTE]

[QUOTEQuit beating around the bush!
Let me put it very bluntly: Either put up or shut up (i.e. stop posting)!
Provide Scripture that states that God gives faith to the unregenerate or give up and stop posting. Enough is enough][/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by DHK
No, I have just been given this Calvinistic myth (like now), without any Scripture to back up your claim. If you had any valid statement to make you would use Scripture, but you can't.

I can only conclude that you as other Calvinists do not agree with our Lord Jesus Christ on this matter.

Your presupposition, that God gives faith to unregenerate people comes from Calvin. He learned it from Augustine, not one of the ECF, but rather a Father of the RCC. In the totality of Scripture we see God uses those who put their faith and trust in Him.

These are just some examples of your buddy attacking...then he gets called out......then he wants to censor people.

He has many errors that we have addressed several times with scripture.He rejects them each and every time. Then claims he wants to see scripture

If you feel you can offer scriptural correction then go ahead...any biblical correction is welcome. Philosophical and humanistic ideas are not welcome.

 

[DHK]

Qf...
You often support false ideas with your patented 4 thumbs up.
On page 14 of this thread you have DHK saying.....

Originally Posted by DHK
The one that cannot provide the Scripture is the one that believes myths and Calvinistic stories. You have been brainwashed by an Augustinian RCC founder]

Quit beating around the bush!
Let me put it very bluntly: Either put up or shut up (i.e. stop posting)!
Provide Scripture that states that God gives faith to the unregenerate or give up and stop posting. Enough is enough]

Hello Icon,
The simple truth is that when a person makes a statement without evidence, then he should provide the evidence when asked for; not simply repeat his erroneous statement over and over and over like a broken tape-recorder. Perhaps if he gave even one verse of Scripture there would be something to talk about. But he would not even post one verse of Scripture to support his position.

It is very childish and exasperating when ever post is boiled down to "Your wrong," "your wrong," "your wrong," etc., without giving any reason to say why you are wrong.

 

[DHK]

P4T has called you out on several of your false ideas....It is you who are consistently posting error.
You have several areas that you have been given scripture on...you just do not believe the verses,
Trying to censor P4T ....is not going to correct your false ideas.There are many non cals who rarely if ever use a verse...or even mis-use a verse,and yet you remain silent to them.
Do not be hypocritical here.Work on your own errors.

My position is very clear. There is nowhere in the Bible where it states that faith is a gift given to an unregenerated person. No Calvinist in more than five threads over a period of a number of months has been able to come up with any Scripture to demonstrate this.

The onus is not on me, Icon. The onus is on you and P4T and on other Calvinists who believe this. If you believe that God grants spiritual gifts and the fruit of the Spirit such as faith to unregenerate people, then come forward with Scripture to prove it.

That is all that I ask.
Don't tell me that I am wrong when you can't show me from the Scriptures that I am wrong.

 

[The Archangel]

Hello Icon,
The simple truth is that when a person makes a statement without evidence, then he should provide the evidence when asked for; not simply repeat his erroneous statement over and over and over like a broken tape-recorder. Perhaps if he gave even one verse of Scripture there would be something to talk about. But he would not even post one verse of Scripture to support his position.

It is very childish and exasperating when ever post is boiled down to "Your wrong," "your wrong," "your wrong," etc., without giving any reason to say why you are wrong.

Now, if only you'd apply that same sentiment to all the posters here, not just the Calvinists.

My position is very clear. There is nowhere in the Bible where it states that faith is a gift given to an unregenerated person. No Calvinist in more than five threads over a period of a number of months has been able to come up with any Scripture to demonstrate this.

The onus is not on me, Icon. The onus is on you and P4T and on other Calvinists who believe this. If you believe that God grants spiritual gifts and the fruit of the Spirit such as faith to unregenerate people, then come forward with Scripture to prove it.

That is all that I ask.
Don't tell me that I am wrong when you can't show me from the Scriptures that I am wrong.

We have been telling you, you just won't listen. But, the "onus" has been met by us. The problem is that you are wanting a chapter and verse. We can't necessarily give one (but, to do so in Greek is much more efficacious). When we have offered verses, you've turned a blind eye to them--based on your presuppositions.

In looking for chapter and verse you are asking for a square circle. After all, we can't reference chapter and verse to prove the Trinity, but we can put together a picture of the Trinity from the entirety of Scripture.

Unfortunately, you are trying to set a standard for the Calvinists that you do not set for the non-Calvinists and it is a standard that you will not follow yourself. In essence it is demanding evidence in a way that is not deliverable--a strawman or a red herring.

I would imagine, as a moderator, you would be above such things. Apparently not. It is unfortunate.

The Archangel

 

[Iconoclast]

Hello Icon,
The simple truth is that when a person makes a statement without evidence, then he should provide the evidence when asked for; not simply repeat his erroneous statement over and over and over like a broken tape-recorder. Perhaps if he gave even one verse of Scripture there would be something to talk about. But he would not even post one verse of Scripture to support his position.

It is very childish and exasperating when ever post is boiled down to "Your wrong," "your wrong," "your wrong," etc., without giving any reason to say why you are wrong.

DHK....

review robert snows last 200 posts...everytime he offers a verse i give you a dollar...every time he does not you give me a dollar:thumbs::laugh::laugh:
Arch angel just said what I was going to say pretty much..but I could add...I have offered you verses and sermons...which you refused...you remember don't you??? or do i have to go back and repost each time???

Remember this one DHK.....never in the bible is anyone said to be saved BECAUSE...of faith...it is always by, or through faith....always
You are another one on BB on team ..."calvinist jihad"....trying to oppose the truth...when we react...you fail to step up and respond to the specific answers offered.

 

[Winman]

Well you finely got something right.

The gift of God is eternal life that is salvation.

Faith is what justified you that you might be given the gift of God.
Justification comes because of faith.

Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ,

Now what was this act of faith Jesus did that justifies you?

Romans 5:9 being now justified by his blood, his dying justified and reconciled you to God that ye might receive eternal life.

Jesus dying was the faith that justified you. Through his resurrection you will be able to be given eternal life. If he had just died that would not have been enough. He had to be raised or there would not have been any life to give you.

1 Cor 15:16-18 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: And if Christ be not raised, your faith [is] vain; ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

Or am I confused again???

The reason our faith would be vain and we would still be in our sins if Jesus did not rise is because he had to offer his blood on the mercy seat in heaven. If he did not rise and offer his blood, we would still be in sin and our faith would be vain.

 

[freeatlast]

You're confusing the ability to "choose" with faith.

Faith comes (literally comes) from the Word of God. Romans 10:17.

Saving faith is a gift from God, not a "choice."

I suppose that someone might make the argument that since all things comes from God then faith comes from God. However that would be stretching things somewhat if faith is taught that it is a special gift to certain people so they can get saved. The bible just does not teach that.


I have known people who believe in Jesus Christ and will not exercise repentance so as to make the belief faith. In fact there was a time in my own life when I did not simply believe all that was true about Jesus I knew it was all true and I still would not repent and I remained lost. Salvation is the result of God and man both working together unto repentance/faith with the result salvation.

 

[freeatlast]

Quit beating around the bush!
Let me put it very bluntly: Either put up or shut up (i.e. stop posting)!
Provide Scripture that states that God gives faith to the unregenerate or give up and stop posting. Enough is enough!

That is abusive.

 

[quantumfaith]

Qf...
You often support false ideas with your patented 4 thumbs up.
On page 14 of this thread you have DHK saying.....

[QUOTEOriginally Posted by DHK
The one that cannot provide the Scripture is the one that believes myths and Calvinistic stories. You have been brainwashed by an Augustinian RCC founder]

[QUOTEQuit beating around the bush!
Let me put it very bluntly: Either put up or shut up (i.e. stop posting)!
Provide Scripture that states that God gives faith to the unregenerate or give up and stop posting. Enough is enough][/QUOTE]







These are just some examples of your buddy attacking...then he gets called out......then he wants to censor people.

He has many errors that we have addressed several times with scripture.He rejects them each and every time. Then claims he wants to see scripture

If you feel you can offer scriptural correction then go ahead...any biblical correction is welcome. Philosophical and humanistic ideas are not welcome.[/QUOTE]

Please do not be childish Icon. There are no "buddies" here as you are attempting to be pejorative here. I see DHK and others respond to those things that you (and others) label as "errors", and most (if not all the time) those "errors" that you refer to are relative to opposing interpretations and positions. As for support for ones thoughts, positions, interpretations etc. I say all support is viable, scripture, philosophy, logic, analogies etc to make ones case. If you don't like it. Tough.

 

[preacher4truth]

DHK....

review robert snows last 200 posts...everytime he offers a verse i give you a dollar...every time he does not you give me a dollar:thumbs::laugh::laugh:
Arch angel just said what I was going to say pretty much..but I could add...I have offered you verses and sermons...which you refused...you remember don't you??? or do i have to go back and repost each time???

Remember this one DHK.....never in the bible is anyone said to be saved BECAUSE...of faith...it is always by, or through faith....always
You are another one on BB on team ..."calvinist jihad"....trying to oppose the truth...when we react...you fail to step up and respond to the specific answers offered.

Exactly, which is why I won't cast Scriptures before him.

No need. He's been told and shown dozens of times by many.

 

[preacher4truth]

I suppose that someone might make the argument that since all things comes from God then faith comes from God. However that would be stretching things somewhat if faith is taught that it is a special gift to certain people so they can get saved. The bible just does not teach that.


I have known people who believe in Jesus Christ and will not exercise repentance so as to make the belief faith. In fact there was a time in my own life when I did not simply believe all that was true about Jesus I knew it was all true and I still would not repent and I remained lost. Salvation is the result of God and man both working together unto repentance/faith with the result salvation.

Ths Scriptures clearly teach faith is the gift of God.

 

[preacher4truth]

If you can't post Scripture to defend your post, I suggest to another moderator to simply start deleting your posts. You are just wasting time and space. If you can't post Scripture to demonstrate that God gives faith to the unregenerate (and we know he doesn't), then at least be man enough to admit it.

Go for it. Make certain you include all others who don't use Scriptures here, the place will become a ghost town.

I refuse to give you Scriptures yet again, as also Icon, Arch Angel, others.

There's no rule I have to give you verses at your request.

 

[preacher4truth]

P4T has called you out on several of your false ideas....It is you who are consistently posting error.
You have several areas that you have been given scripture on...you just do not believe the verses,
Trying to censor P4T ....is not going to correct your false ideas.There are many non cals who rarely if ever use a verse...or even mis-use a verse,and yet you remain silent to them.
Do not be hypocritical here.Work on your own errors.

Exactly in all that you've said Iconoclast. :thumbsup:

I find it interesting how I am singled out with forebodings & c on here, both publically and in PM for my postings, typically when and after they are shown their errors.

There is much Scripture showing faith to the unregenerate is God's gift. I'd suggest he do a study himself as self-discovery would be the best teacher for him.

 

[preacher4truth]

That is abusive.

I'm getting used to it.