A question about Noah...

[percho]

What promises are you talking about?
Our discussion was centered around salvation. The Scriptures are very clear about Abraham's salvation:

For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. (Romans 4:3)

The promises made to Abraham and his one seed Christ pertain to salvation. Had Abraham received the promises when the book of Hebrews was written? Has Abraham received the promises even today?

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

What do you think that pertains to? Maybe this? that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

The first cause of. How? who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead;

The seed of Abraham the only begotten Son of God by a woman. Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. For if the inheritance [be] of the law, [it is] no more of promise: but God gave [it] to Abraham by promise. Wherefore then [serveth] the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made;

Rom 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, [was] not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. That is the faith shown below.

Gal 3:23 And before the coming of the faith, under law we were being kept, shut up to the faith about to be revealed,
Gal 3:25 and the faith having come, no more under a child-conductor are we,

 

[Aaron]

God already knows who will believe and who will not. That does not cause any person to believe, and it does not prevent any person from believeing.

Why is this difficult to understand for you?

I understand your position better than you do. It's unscriptural, and the fact that you are saying one is chosen based upon his own righteousness (or lesser degree of evil if you prefer) seems to escape you.

 

[Amy.G]

I understand your position better than you do. It's unscriptural, and the fact that you are saying one is chosen based upon his own righteousness (or lesser degree of evil if you prefer) seems to escape you.

No one is chosen based on his "own" righteousness because no one is righteous. They are chosen based on their faith.

No one has said what you claim.

 

[The Archangel]

Because I have rebuked you (or rather Archangel, whom you agreed with)??

Your "rebuke" is vapid.

You do not know Genesis as you should.

And...if you want to get into competing "rebukes" you would do well to compete with someone other than me. You don't want to bring out "Bad Archangel." You wouldn't like Bad Archangel. My patience for and my tolerance of my errant non-Calvinist brothers and sisters only goes so far (a deficiency in myself, to be sure).

The Archangel

 

[JesusFan]

No one is chosen based on his "own" righteousness because no one is righteous. They are chosen based on their faith.

No one has said what you claim.

There is the basis of our salvation though being called into question...


Are you saying that God foreknew and saved us based Him knowing that we would place faith in Christ?

Do we all thus have "inherit" faith in us?

Are we dead in our sins or not from the fall?

IF we are sinners, why do some act on inherit faith, but not others, as ALL are in same spiritual condition?

IF inherit faith, chose to act on it freely, can one boast to God at what they chose to do by their own will?

 

[Amy.G]

There is the basis of our salvation though being called into question...


Are you saying that God foreknew and saved us based Him knowing that we would place faith in Christ?

Do we all thus have "inherit" faith in us?

Are we dead in our sins or not from the fall?

IF we are sinners, why do some act on inherit faith, but not others, as ALL are in same spiritual condition?

IF inherit faith, chose to act on it freely, can one boast to God at what they chose to do by their own will?

I am saying that before the foundation of the world, God chose to save all those who put their faith in the finished work of Christ. These are the "elect".

Faith is simply another word for trust. You are able to trust in all sorts of things aren't you? When you get in your car, do you not trust that it will start? When you sit down in a chair, do you not trust it to hold you up? Trusting Christ is simply making a choice to do so. He does the saving, we only let go and trust Him to do so.
God created us this way. It's not magical and it's not by any effort of our own. God has given us everything we need to come to Him, but it is your choice to do so. You can stand there with your hands in your pockets, or you can reach out and take God's hand.

 

[Winman]

I understand your position better than you do. It's unscriptural, and the fact that you are saying one is chosen based upon his own righteousness (or lesser degree of evil if you prefer) seems to escape you.

I don't believe you understand my position, or faith either. How is faith merit?

A person could be a compulsive liar, a thief, a mass murderer, but he could trust his godly mother if she made a promise to him. Does believeing his mother make him a good person? No.

Trusting Jesus is not a merit on our part, it is simply recognizing that Jesus is good and believeing his promise.

Trust me, no person can feel good or righteous in Jesus's presence, but we can all know he is good and can trust him.

 

[psalms109:31]

Romans 4
Abraham Justified by Faith
1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”
4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the one
whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”


Psalm 73:28
But it is good for me to draw near to God; I have put my trust in the Lord GOD, That I may declare all Your works.

The wages of our sin is death, who paid it and who do we boast in.

If my wages for my sin was trust, faith, belief, then i have reason to boast since it is death and Jesus paid it. I can only boast in Christ.

I am saved by grace, because I didn't have to pay my debt that I owe.

 

[JesusFan]

[

QUOTE=Winman;1734960]I don't believe you understand my position, or faith either. How is faith merit?

IF faith is inherit in all of us, IF all can respond by faith, by freely choosing to so such, we can boast to God that we decided to allow Him to now apply saving grace to us, as we were better than other who heard and freely rejected...

IF grace is NOT freely given by God to us based on His Will alone, than open up this 'work" scenerio!


A person could be a compulsive liar, a thief, a mass murderer, but he could trust his godly mother if she made a promise to him. Does believeing his mother make him a good person? No.

What if that person was deaf to hearing the message though?

Trusting Jesus is not a merit on our part, it is simply recognizing that Jesus is good and believeing his promise.

[/QUOTE]


If the faith is totally from/in us, and if we freely decide for jesus, than we would be meriting favor with God based upon our 'work"

 

[Amy.G]

[


What if that person was deaf to hearing the message though?

If the faith is totally from/in us, and if we freely decide for jesus, than we would be meriting favor with God based upon our 'work"

Faith is not a work. We know that we cannot be saved by works, but only by grace through faith. Even Calvinists agree that we are not saved apart from faith. (which is not a work)

Are you saying that if God "imparts" faith to us, it's not a work, but if we are able to place our faith in Christ it's a work?

P.S. PLEASE learn to use the quote function.

 

[Iconoclast]

:thumbsup:

Your "rebuke" is vapid.

You do not know Genesis as you should.

And...if you want to get into competing "rebukes" you would do well to compete with someone other than me. You don't want to bring out "Bad Archangel." You wouldn't like Bad Archangel. My patience for and my tolerance of my errant non-Calvinist brothers and sisters only goes so far (a deficiency in myself, to be sure).

The Archangel

:applause::laugh::thumbsup:

 

[Amy.G]

You wouldn't like Bad Archangel.

Bad Archangel------------>

:laugh:

 

[Winman]

What if that person was deaf to hearing the message though?

If the faith is totally from/in us, and if we freely decide for jesus, than we would be meriting favor with God based upon our 'work"

First, you need to learn how to use the quote function. If you Calvinists are so smart, why can't you or Icon post properly?

Imagine Jesus appeared to you as he did to Paul. Would you feel righteous? Would you feel proud?

I think you know the answer, we would all feel ashamed and fall on our faces trembling just as Paul did.

But if Jesus spoke to you and gave you a promise, would you believe him? I would.

So, believeing is not merit on our part, it is not feeling or believeing ourselves righteous.

No, it is looking away from ourselves completely and looking at him. It is recognizing his goodness and knowing we can trust him.

To start quote
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Please practice, your posts are nearly impossible to read. If you can't figure this out, then don't quote. You have been here for months, you should have figured this out long ago.

 

[Amy.G]

The ability to have faith is in all of us. Muslims have so much faith they are willing to strap bombs to themselves and blow themselves up for their "god".
Their problem is not faith, it's the object of their faith. Allah cannot save them. If they had put that same faith in Christ, they would be alive and serving the only true God instead of dead and suffering in hell.

 

[preacher4truth]

The ability to have faith is in all of us. Muslims have so much faith they are willing to strap bombs to themselves and blow themselves up for their "god".
Their problem is not faith, it's the object of their faith. Allah cannot save them. If they had put that same faith in Christ, they would be alive and serving the only true God instead of dead and suffering in hell.

You're confusing the ability to "choose" with faith.

Faith comes (literally comes) from the Word of God. Romans 10:17.

Saving faith is a gift from God, not a "choice."

 

[Amy.G]

You're confusing the ability to "choose" with faith.

Faith comes (literally comes) from the Word of God. Romans 10:17.

Saving faith is a gift from God, not a "choice."

There is no distinction between "saving faith" and faith. If you have scripture to show it, please do.
Faith is faith. It is believing, trusting, in someone other than yourself. To be saved your faith must in the right person, that of Jesus Christ.

 

[preacher4truth]

There is no distinction between "saving faith" and faith. If you have scripture to show it, please do.
Faith is faith. It is believing, trusting, in someone other than yourself. To be saved your faith must in the right person, that of Jesus Christ.

James teaches there is a faith that does not save. Paul talks of faith that is in vain.

Faith is not faith, (your "faith is faith") as in the false notion "it's the same as putting your faith in sitting in a chair, that it will hold you" as in "voila!"

I gave Romans 10:17, and more here. Faith comes from God's Word, not from you.

 

[Winman]

There is no distinction between "saving faith" and faith. If you have scripture to show it, please do.
Faith is faith. It is believing, trusting, in someone other than yourself. To be saved your faith must in the right person, that of Jesus Christ.

You have to understand Amy, they have been taught that they do not have the ability to believe. They are not even sure what faith is, or if they have it.

In fact, Calvin taught that God gives some persons what is called "Evanescent Grace". This is a false faith that is so real that a person cannot distinguish it from real saving faith.

The Calvinists here don't know if they have real saving faith, or this false evanescent grace that Calvin taught.

How would you like to have these thoughts in your mind? Calvin taught doubt, no way a person who believes his doctrine can have real assurance.

So, don't worry about their insults, they don't even know if they have faith.

 

[preacher4truth]

All "Calvinist" brethren know they have received faith, know they have faith, and know from Whom they've received it.

To state otherwise and mock saids belief and saids faith, and, to state they do not know whether or not they have faith &c is to completely misrepresent them, and is subsequently calling into question their salvation altogether.

 

[Amy.G]

James teaches there is a faith that does not save. Paul talks of faith that is in vain.

Faith is not faith, (your "faith is faith") as in the false notion "it's the same as putting your faith in sitting in a chair, that it will hold you" as in "voila!"

I gave Romans 10:17, and more here. Faith comes from God's Word, not from you.

What makes faith "vain" or "dead" is the object of that faith. Muslims have a faith that is in "vain" or worthless because of the object of their faith. They do not put that faith in the right "object" which is Jesus. Therefore their faith is dead.