Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Even if your election philosophy is correct the person is not saved at birth. They have to be born again later at some point in time to be saved.
For the record, it's not my election philosophy, it's the eternal truth of Gods Word, so it's His truth, not my philosophy. Since they are elect, not if, they will most certainly come to the knowledge of salvation. None of His will be lost.
Now you are getting it. Based on your philosophy they WILL COME to the knowledge, but until they do they are not saved. They have to be born again. We are not saved at physical birth.
You're philosophy misses the truth here, thus unfortunately your philosophy is not "getting it", so I cannot lend you the same kudos. Close but not close enough, so you're in error here.
They are saved from the foundation of the world, they don't recognize such until said point.
Here is why the Lord warned about adding to scripture with a judgment for doing so as you have. it causes miss-information and false doctrine that you hold. The bible NEVER says anyone has been saved from the foundation of the world. Your philosophy is both wrong and sinful because you add to scripture. Salvation takes place at the new birth contrary to your claim. People are not saved prior to the new birth. Any suggestion contrary is heritical.
Where did I add to Scripture? Nowhere. I happen to believe all of it and embrace all of its truths. :thumbsup:
Your erroneous ideology has been dismantled. All He has chosen will come to Him. I know you struggle with this truth, but, you have to be right, all of your faith and hope rests soley upon whether you yourself are correct. That's scary right there.
You're incorrect, close, but no winner for you. Your continual turning away from passages that shred your system is shameful.
Heritical? What's that?
Then you need to embrace the new birth as the beginning of salvation, eternity past.
Depends on what you mean by "saved." If you mean born again, then that is not true. Just as there is a point in time before which Christ was not crucified, and after which He was, there is clearly a point in time that one was dead, and then made alive.That is exactly true.
I embrace all of it in all of it's truth. So did Paul. You? Not so much.
You're getting closer, but you're still in error.
In your system you make pretense to holding a higher than most view of the Bible, yet, at the same time, you turn a blind eye to the truths contained therein. Therefore your view of the Word is not nearly as high and lofty as your pretense.
A total red herring.
"David, a man after God's own heart, was so Godly that he committed both adultery and murder."
God never reproves Jacob for anything he did. Many preachers do, but God doesn't. There is not one word of Scripture that denounces the actions of Jacob. You may call him a liar, a cheat, a scoundrel, etc. But God doesn't. So take up your argument with God. The fact is that Jacob believed God and his brother did not.
Let me ask. Is this verse not taken out of context?
Read the story.
In their heart the people desired a king like all the heathen (Gentiles) around them. That was their heart's desire. So God let them have a king. Saul a man after their heart. 1 Sam. 11:15 And all the people went to Gilgal; and there they made Saul king before the LORD in Gilgal;
Acts 13:21 And afterward they desired a king: and God gave unto them Saul the son of Cis, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, by the space of forty years.
A man after their own heart, No?
Who did God choose after his own heart? David
It is called election.
And so Jacob was chosen because he did (or would do) better than Esau, and NOT as the Scriptures state, so that God's purposes according to election might stand.
You are not making sense.Let me ask. Is this verse not taken out of context?
Read the story.
In their heart the people desired a king like all the heathen (Gentiles) around them. That was their heart's desire. So God let them have a king. Saul a man after their heart. 1 Sam. 11:15 And all the people went to Gilgal; and there they made Saul king before the LORD in Gilgal;
Acts 13:21 And afterward they desired a king: and God gave unto them Saul the son of Cis, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, by the space of forty years.
A man after their own heart, No?
Who did God choose after his own heart? David
It is called election.
Post no. 35 in the thread, "What is a scriptural choice regarding Salvation"
which neither C's nor A"s will agree with, shows what saving faith is and when it begin and ended.
Show me from scripture where that post is not accurate.
Is it not strange that at the time God called Abram only Abram to our knowledge from God's word believed in the one God? How many people do you think lived at that time?
One more thing. Did God intend for Abram to bring Lot with him or do you think Abram did this in disobedience?
No it doesn't. Even scholars like Jamieson, Faucett and Brown will disagree with you on this point. You sound like you are making this up as you go along. Hebrews 11 says specifically that he left his own country. He left it by faith. In order to do so he had to have faith in God, that is he was saved.The fact of the matter is that the Old Testament text says faith was credited to Abraham as righteousness after Genesis 12.
1. Abraham had already obeyed God in Gen. 11 and in Gen.12.In fact, the Old Testament text goes out of its way to demonstrate that Abraham, in fact, had little to no faith in God's promises. We see this in Genesis 12 where God tells Abraham all that He is going to do. Then we see Abraham lying to Pharaoh about Sarah being his wife. Does that demonstrate faith? No, of course not.
Have you not read the Scriptures? You do err not doing so.How can Abraham believe God--when God tells him that he will become a great nation--and then lie to protect his own life? Really?! How can God's promises be fulfilled if he's dead? He should have known that his life would never be in danger...had he believed God's promises. His lying (and he does this charade twice) demonstrates that he is not, in fact, believing God at that point. Had he believed God, he would not have lied about Sarah being his sister.
Your presupposition, that God gives faith to unregenerate people comes from Calvin. He learned it from Augustine, not one of the ECF, but rather a Father of the RCC. In the totality of Scripture we see God uses those who put their faith and trust in Him.Your insistence that Abraham had to have faith before leaving Ur is based in your presupposition that God only uses those who first have faith. In fact, almost the entire book of Genesis shows that God chooses faithless people and instills faith into them.
The Archangel
What promises are you talking about?God doesn't give you faith. God calls you (elects) and gives you the Spirit of the promise The Holy which in turn makes you an heir, not an inheritor but an heir of the hope of eternal life.
The only regeneration anyone has is in that Spirit from the Father given through Jesus the Son by his faith and who has inherited the promises made to Abraham and his seed the Christ.
Abraham died not having received the promises.