A question about Noah...

[preacher4truth]

What makes faith "vain" or "dead" is the object of that faith. Muslims have a faith that is in "vain" or worthless because of the object of their faith. They do not put that faith in the right "object" which is Jesus. Therefore their faith is dead.

The object of the faith in James and in Pauls rebuke to the Cornithians was God and Christ respectively.

You're incorrect.

Also, faith comes from God's Word (Romans 10:17) not you.

 

[DHK]

The promises made to Abraham and his one seed Christ pertain to salvation. Had Abraham received the promises when the book of Hebrews was written? Has Abraham received the promises even today?

You are way off topic confusing eschatology with soteriology. There is no doubt that Abraham believed God, and God imputed to him righteousness. Thus the rest of your post is moot. Abraham was a saved individual even if he never saw the "promises."

 

[Amy.G]

The object of the faith in James and in Pauls rebuke to the Cornithians was God and Christ respectively.

You're incorrect.

This is about people who claim they have faith, but the proof is in the fruit of the Spirit or works that are done because of their faith. Dead faith is also no faith at all.

Also, faith comes from God's Word (Romans 10:17) not you.

God's word is another "object" of our faith. If faith comes from God's word then everyone who ever read it would be saved.

 

[preacher4truth]

This is about people who claim they have faith, but the proof is in the fruit of the Spirit or works that are done because of their faith. Dead faith is also no faith at all.

They claimed they had faith in God. He was the object of their faith. You said in essence the object of faith is what makes it valid:

What makes faith "vain" or "dead" is the object of that faith.

You're incorrect. Who do you think the object of saids faith was in in James and to those whom Paul referred? Thus the "object" of their faith did not make it valid at all. Thus your statement is erroneous above.

God's word is another "object" of our faith. If faith comes from God's word then everyone who ever read it would be saved.

Not true. You're confusing mental assent, which is "choosing" with the gift of faith God alone gives. One more time, faith comes from God's Word, not from you, nor from others, but from God alone.

 

[DHK]

There is the basis of our salvation though being called into question...


Are you saying that God foreknew and saved us based Him knowing that we would place faith in Christ?

Do we all thus have "inherit" faith in us?

Jesus said unless you have faith as a little child you cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Was he being deceptive?
He believed little children, before they were saved, had inherent faith.
I can only conclude that you as other Calvinists do not agree with our Lord Jesus Christ on this matter.

 

[preacher4truth]

Jesus said unless you have faith as a little child you cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Was he being deceptive?
He believed little children, before they were saved, had inherent faith.
I can only conclude that you as other Calvinists do not agree with our Lord Jesus Christ on this matter.

Jesus never said children had inherent faith. You do err again. You do not agree with the Lord on this matter as you again, as is the norm, miss the point here made.

 

[DHK]

Not true. You're confusing mental assent, which is "choosing" with the gift of faith God alone gives. One more time, faith comes from God's Word, not from you, nor from others, but from God alone.

The gift of God is salvation.
The gift of God is eternal life.

Never is faith called the gift of God. That is error on your part.
Faith is never given to the unregenerate or unsaved, and you have never been able to show otherwise.

 

[preacher4truth]

The gift of God is salvation.
The gift of God is eternal life.

Never is faith called the gift of God. That is error on your part.
Faith is never given to the unregenerate or unsaved, and you have never been able to show otherwise.

You've been schooled several times on faith as a gift. You're in error still on the matter.

 

[DHK]

You've been schooled several times on faith as a gift. You're in error still on the matter.

No, I have just been given this Calvinistic myth (like now), without any Scripture to back up your claim. If you had any valid statement to make you would use Scripture, but you can't.

 

[DHK]

Jesus never said children had inherent faith. You do err again. You do not agree with the Lord on this matter as you again, as is the norm, miss the point here made.

Jesus said unless you have faith as a child.

Do you believe him or not?

 

[preacher4truth]

No, I have just been given this Calvinistic myth (like now), without any Scripture to back up your claim. If you had any valid statement to make you would use Scripture, but you can't.

You've been given multitudes of Scripture and proper exegesis yet you reject it. You've been schooled on the matter by many on the BB. Why give you Scriptures yet again?

Your theology is a myth and is stark error.

 

[preacher4truth]

Jesus said unless you have faith as a child.

Do you believe him or not?

I believe Him, yet, unlike you I know what He meant here. You? Not so much.

 

[DHK]

You've been given multitudes of Scripture and proper exegesis yet you reject it. You've been schooled on the matter by many on the BB. Why give you Scriptures yet again?

Your theology is a myth and is stark error.

The one that cannot provide the Scripture is the one that believes myths and Calvinistic stories. You have been brainwashed by an Augustinian RCC founder.

 

[DHK]

I believe Him, yet, unlike you I know what He meant here. You? Not so much.

So you think. Jesus words were clear. You simply don't believe him. Children had faith. Christ made the statement. You don't believe him.

 

[Winman]

All "Calvinist" brethren know they have received faith, know they have faith, and know from Whom they've received it.

To state otherwise and mock saids belief and saids faith, and, to state they do not know whether or not they have faith &c is to completely misrepresent them, and is subsequently calling into question their salvation altogether.

I am not misrepresenting Calvinism at all. Google "evanescent grace". Calvin taught that God gives some a false faith that is so real that a person can truly believe themselves saved, but in reality they are not. You are just saying it another way, as false faith or real faith.

If you believe you were born a sinner that is unable to believe, then you must depend upon God to regenerate you to know you have real saving faith. But how do you know you have been regenerated? You can't know this. You can say you believe, but if you are unregenerate, this could easily be the false evanescent grace Calvin spoke of?

You don't see a difficulty there? I do. If I believed Calvinism, I would be in constant doubt about my salvation. How can I know if I was regenerated? Faith doesn't prove it, my faith could be false.

Calvin taught men to doubt so he could enslave them. They must prove by constant obedience they are saved. He learned from the Master, the RCC. It works too.

 

[preacher4truth]

So you think. Jesus words were clear. You simply don't believe him. Children had faith. Christ made the statement. You don't believe him.

Not quite. I believe Him and know what He means here.

That's the thing about you, you know what a few verses say, but you don't know what they mean.

 

[preacher4truth]

The one that cannot provide the Scripture is the one that believes myths and Calvinistic stories. You have been brainwashed by an Augustinian RCC founder.

I've never read Augustine. Nevertheless he himself would school you theologically. I've not even read Calvin, and he'd own you theologically.

 

[DHK]

I've never read Augustine. Nevertheless he himself would school you theologically. I've not even read Calvin, and he'd own you theologically.

Quit beating around the bush!
Let me put it very bluntly: Either put up or shut up (i.e. stop posting)!
Provide Scripture that states that God gives faith to the unregenerate or give up and stop posting. Enough is enough!


[A complaint has been sent calling this an abusive post by a "moderator". First, I wish to say that moderators are bound by the same board regulations that all posters are when it comes to 'abuse'. After reading this, I judge that it might be a little harsh, but I don't think this really crosses the line of 'abuse'. If you read both sides, I think you will agree with me that part of the post is 'tongue-in-cheek'. Besides, these are debates and he did not attack the other person directly. I will let this stand and I am not taking up for him as another moderator. I don't even know him well except through reading his posts. If it gets worse we can do something, but this just doesn't seem to cross the line of what you might call an 'attack' which would violate the board rules. Sorry. If you disagree I can take it to an administrator for a decision, but for now it stands.]

 

[preacher4truth]

Quit beating around the bush!
Let me put it very bluntly: Either put up or shut up (i.e. stop posting)!
Provide Scripture that states that God gives faith to the unregenerate or give up and stop posting. Enough is enough!

Practice what you preach here and quit posting yourself.

That and simmer down eh?

You've stated Calvinist theology is myth, but the fact is your theology is mythical an erroneous.

You've been schooled and owned on faith is a gift many times over, on here, and from God's Word. :wavey:

I know it must bother you that you feel I've studied Augustine and Calvin, yet I haven't, and that in fact it's your theology which resembles RCC, not mine.

Maybe you're reading Augustine now, yes?

 

[Iconoclast]

Practice what you preach here and quit posting yourself.

That and simmer down eh?

You've stated Calvinist theology is myth, but the fact is your theology is mythical an erroneous.

You've been schooled and owned on faith is a gift many times over, on here, and from God's Word.

I know it must bother you that you feel I've studied Augustine and Calvin, yet I haven't, and that in fact it's your theology which resembles RCC, not mine.

Maybe you're reading Augustine now, yes?

:thumbsup::applause::applause::thumbsup: