DHK
With all due respect Icon, and respect is one of the major issues here, there are a great many scholars both now and in ages past that are not Calvinist in doctrine.
Correct...I have several on my book shelf, many godly men:thumbsup:
Your condemnation of them is out of order.
I do not condemn them as you did to Dr. Mohler:wavey:
Simply because they are non-Cal does not mean they "believe something in the strength of their own flesh," and it certainly does not mean that they don't have a "God-given understanding or saving understanding of divine truth."
I was not speaking of every person, do not read that into my post.
Allow me to clarify....
Speaking for myself....I understand what is called Calvinism , tulip, DoG, to be the truth of God.
So the question becomes how then can everyone not agree on this?
There are many answers along the Spectrum. J.C. Ryle, Richard baxter and others like them....did not hold to the 5 pts....in totality...
They had partial and substantial agreement, but could not reconcile some verses to the position ,so they stood their ground.
I do not see where they violently attacked believers who see all 5 pts as they understood the differences. The different view on the L....did not effect their study and teaching on sanctification to a point where they went out of the camp.
Here on BB....you have many who are clueless on the issue and verses at issue, and yet they just post day after day attacks upon the biblical God, His word and His church.
They think nothing of speaking in profane ways about God and His revealed will. They cover it[in their mind] by saying.....this is what I would have to believe about God if I held what you do.
If anyone is questioning the salvation of others--all non-cals on the board and throughout history it is you. What a terrible accusation
.
Seriously DHK...I know you are still in damage control mode trying to cover your recent posting gaffs, but you cannot even say this to me at all.
What credibility can you have when you throw Dr. Mohler under the bus and do not even think twice about it???
Those who mock biblical truth will answer to God. I cannot judge any man as I cannot read their hearts. I can read their posts however and when I raise any issue in general terms you and others look to try and make me say what I did not say to discredit the point made.....Again..let me illustrate;
I have made several statements that have biblical backing and are given as warnings....the warnings are given to help the person to not suffer the consequences of ignoring the warnings.
Here is an example I used recently;
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our
beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood,
which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17
Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
Peter instructs the believers of scoffers who scoff at some of pauls teachings, in such a way that it leads to their destruction...it is called the error of the WICKED
he then says that believers know these things beforehand..are to BEWARE...do you see this in vs 17....???
If I quote this it is quite biblical...paul wrote more about election and predestination than almost anyone. I believe I am on solid ground.
I did not single out anyone here by name, but I am not afraid to offer the warning.
Some who scoff now...will come to these truths later...so I am in no position to say someone is outside of orthodox as you and your friend speak of Dr. Mohler. what you are doing now is trying to make an eqvialency argument
by building your pattened strawman as you attacked AA and rippon, who called you into question.
IOW, some can go from a Calvinist position to a non-Cal position, right?
Is that what you are saying?
Professed Calvinists...are NOT exempt from the warning passages either.
A person can read and memorize a position...like the guy several years ago who had a show on broadway where he would recite from memory the gospel of mark from memory but he was a professed agnostic.
I did not mind you raising the issue about "new calvinism' as I have questioned it and do not fully embrace it...nor do I have to.
it was your lumping in Dr M the way you did...
You do believe my beliefs are in error.
I have said before...you hold and teach definite error, which I offered you correction on, and you refused to even listen to two men open up the greek text for you.
I have also seen you defend some of the truth, trinity, deity, scripture on other denm forum. you are a mix,as we all are.
You constantly call them error, even sometimes heretical.
and I find your refusal to consider the correction offered troubling ..If you considered it and gave biblical reason for your rejection that would be one thing...but you refuse to look.
In fact many of the Calvinists do.
There is a reason for that...
I remember Luke. One of his favorite lines: "Calvinism is the gospel."
The statement from Spurgeon is accurate when correctly understood;
It is no novelty, then, that I am preaching; no new doctrine. I love to proclaim these strong old doctrines that are called by nickname Calvinism, but which are truly and verily the revealed truth of God as it is in Christ Jesus. By this truth I make my pilgrimage into the past, and as I go, I see father after father, confessor after confessor, martyr after martyr, standing up to shake hands with me . . . Taking these things to be the standard of my faith, I see the land of the ancients peopled with my brethren; I behold multitudes who confess the same as I do, and acknowledge that this is the religion of God's own church. (Spurgeon's Sovereign Grace Sermons, Still Waters Revival Books, p. 170).
I have my own opinion that there is no such thing as preaching Christ and Him crucified, unless we preach what nowadays is called Calvinism. It is a nickname to call it Calvinism;
Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else. I do not believe we can preach the gospel if we do not preach justification by faith without works; nor unless we preach the sovereignty of God in His dispensation of grace; nor unless we exalt the electing unchangeable eternal, immutable, conquering love of Jehovah; nor do I think we can preach the gospel unless we base it upon the special and particular redemption of His elect and chosen people which Christ wrought out upon the cross. (Charles Spurgeon, The New Park Street Pulpit, Vol. 1, 1856).
Pure arrogance on the part of Calvinism which implies that every non-Cal does not have the gospel and as Rippon and Archangel are so upset about, infer that a whole group are under the curse of Gal.1:6-9. But we suffer without complaint. Cals raise a fuss with no end in sight.
You said that, not us....Rippon was clear when he gave his view how it is....
