A question for calvinists

[webdog]

More poor understanding of the truth.

Why you are wrong...

Will God change his mind and stop loving you?

If He will change his mind...then you have no way to know if he will not change and stop loving you.

Two years ago, Pastor Larry and I and others went over this passage with your dear friend and follow free-willer Bob Ryan showing his errors on this passage. You must not have read it. Take the time and look it up. If you still don't understand we can go over it again.

I don't recall many posts from two years ago.
Your question is ridiculous, and not worthy of a response.

 

[webdog]

If you wish to disagree with the clear text of the Bible that is up to you. I will stick to the Bible.

Being born again prior to faith in Christ is not found in Scripture, so his disagreement is not with Scripture, but with your view.

 

[webdog]

And...as you have already been shown...that God changes His mind. I gave you one resource and you will not change YOUR mind. Allow me to show you even more sources.

1) BARRICK, WILLIAM D.
"The Opennes of God: Does Prayer Change God?"
" His "change of mind" was a tool to elicit a change of response in Moses. Moses' prayer changed Moses, not God."

2) Open Theism - Part 1
(April/May 2002 - Volume 8, Issue 3)
http://www.svchapel.org/Resources/Articles/read_articles.asp?ID=69

Traditional or classical theism has dominated not only most of church history but Jewish history as well. Open theist Richard Rice, although obviously disenchanted with classical theism, captures well the essence of the classical understanding of God when he writes,

This traditional, or conventional, view emphasizes God’s sovereignty, majesty and glory. God’s will is the final explanation for all that happens; God’s glory is the ultimate purpose that all creation serves. In his infinite power, God brought the world into existence in order to fulfill his purposes and display his glory. Since his sovereign will is irresistible, whatever he dictates comes to pass and every event plays its role in his grand design. Nothing can thwart or hinder the accomplishment of his purposes. God’s relation to the world is thus one of mastery and control.[2]

Open theism challenges every tenet of the above definition, denying God’s sovereignty, His omniscience and His glory. Pinnock lays the groundwork with this definition of what he calls the openness of God.

In broad strokes, it takes the following form. God, in grace, grants humans significant freedom to cooperate with or work against God’s will for their lives, and he enters into dynamic, give-and-take relationships with us. The Christian life involves a genuine interaction between God and human beings. We respond to God’s gracious initiatives and God responds to our responses… and on it goes. God takes risks in this give-and-take relationship, yet he is endlessly resourceful and competent in working toward his ultimate goals. Sometimes God alone decides how to accomplish these goals. On other occasions, God works with human decisions, adapting his own plans to fit the changing situation. God does not control everything that happens. Rather, he is open to receiving input from his creatures. In loving dialogue, God invites us to participate with him to bring the future into being.

3) Openness View
"Openness of God" theology
http://www.pilgrimcovenant.com/weeklyQA/wklyQA_021124.html

Prayer is an effectual activity whereby angels and humans can function as God’s counselors and change His mind.

There are many more places to prove this if this does not work for you. You may want to read this...

THE OPENNESS OF GOD:
DOES PRAYER CHANGE GOD?
William D. Barrick
Professor of Old Testament

http://www.tms.edu/tmsj/tmsj12g.pdf

But also you really need to read this simple take on openness, because it sounds just like you....



Call me if you still do not understand.

I rest my case. You are very "open". Or is this yet another time you will "change your mind" as you did with the "free grace" crowd, once you see the error?


I am Classical theism. So was your best buddy John Wesley.

I've never met Wesley...so I wouldn't consider him my "buddy". Also, I am not an open theist, and would appreciate it if you would not refer to me as such from this point forward. One flawed source that has an agenda as you do does not prove anything. I already posted what open theism is. I know you believe you have it all figured out...but you really don't. I pray your pride does not get in the way of true knowledge.

 

[Jarthur001]

Originally Posted by Jarthur001
More poor understanding of the truth.

Why you are wrong...

Will God change his mind and stop loving you?

I don't recall many posts from two years ago.
Your question is ridiculous, and not worthy of a response.

I'll take that as a no.

 

[Jarthur001]

I've never met Wesley...so I wouldn't consider him my "buddy".

Of course you have never met him. He died many years ago. I mean no disrespect at all to you. As I have said before, I find your words match his very close. And you often quote Adam Clarke who reinforced the teachings of Methodist founder Wesley. If you no longer believe as they, then I will not place your name with them any longer.

Also, I am not an open theist, and would appreciate it if you would not refer to me as such from this point forward. One flawed source that has an agenda as you do does not prove anything. I already posted what open theism is.

If it was just Jarthur saying it, with some kind of agenda, I would understand. It is not I, but 5 sources now that claim this to be that case. I shall give you more.

This is from a OTheism site....

http://www.opentheism.info/

what is openness theology?
Openness Theology (commonly referred to as Open Theism and Free Will Theism) connects with the spirituality of many Christians throughout the history of the church especially when it comes to prayer. Many Christians feel that our prayers or lack of them can make a difference as to what God does in history. The Openness of God is an attempt to think out more consistently what it means that God enters into personal relationships with humanity. We want to develop an understanding of the triune God and God's relationship to the world that is Biblically faithful, finds consonance with the tradition, is theologically coherent and which enhances the way we live our Christian lives. On the core tenets of the Christian faith, we agree, but we believe that some aspects of the tradition need reforming, particularly when it comes to what is called "Classical Theism." We believe that some aspects of this model of God have led Christians to misread certain Scriptures and develop some serious problems in our understanding of God which affect the way we live, pray and answer the problem of evil.
- Dr. John Sanders

You may want to read "The Diminished God of Open Theism" by Ware which tells more about this.

Another good book is..."Bound Only Once".

All three of these sources will show that changing God with our prayer is the goal of Open Theism.

I know you believe you have it all figured out...but you really don't

.
No I don't have it all figured out. I do know error when I see it. Again....if it were just me saying this I would understand you not believing me. But there are mounds of books, MP3s and blogs on this and I have given you many ways to find this on your own. Or...just google it.

I pray your pride does not get in the way of true knowledge.

I hope you mean this. I hope this was not just a cute saying. I long for prayers such as this. Also pray that I do not have to much pride to admit when I am wrong. Please pray for me in all areas of life.

 

[Rubato 1]

If He will change his mind...then you have no way to know if he will not change and stop loving you.

Wrong. God's attributes do not change. He will always love. He can't change his mind and then go back on his covenant with man; this changes him from just to unjust, thruth to liar, merciful to unmerciful. God can change his mind, but He will not change. God himself explains this.

 

[nunatak]

Agreed pinoybaptist.

So then, I take this "taking off the veil" is having the understanding enlightened?

And having understanding is a necessary part of the gospel response.

How is the understanding enlightened? Hearing the gospel preached?

 

[webdog]

I'll take that as a no.

Take it however you want to, but I tire of the Riddler type posts.

 

[webdog]

Openness Theology (commonly referred to as Open Theism and Free Will Theism)

Who is "commonly" referring this? I've never heard free will theology referenced to "openness theology". It starts off with a false premise, so the rest of Dr. John Sanders' explanation is garbage. The non cal position doesn't teach that God is still learning anything, or has no knowledge of future events. I have yet to see an open theist on this board.

 

[Jarthur001]

Who is "commonly" referring this? I've never heard free will theology referenced to "openness theology". It starts off with a false premise, so the rest of Dr. John Sanders' explanation is garbage. The non cal position doesn't teach that God is still learning anything, or has no knowledge of future events. I have yet to see an open theist on this board.

Sanders would know the ideas more then any other, being he is one of the founders of the movement. If Sanders says openness is born in "free-will" theology I will take his word for it. Sanders is not the only one that claims this.

 

[psalms109:31]

Gospel

When we hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ we can't see it clearly, untill we turn to Jesus.

At this point we can respond either way as lyndia or like young rich ruler.

God wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth, so you cannot blame God for not comming. Like saying it is the serpent that you created that made me do it or the women you created or today's excuse that you created me this way.

Don't make excuses not to come just come to Jesus and in no wise will He cast you out.

God loved the world that He sent His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life or you have already been condemned because you have not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God