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A sincere question for Catholics
- Thread starter 3AngelsMom
- Start date
trying2understand
New Member
Which Buddist?
I don't know the heart or mind of any person other than myself. And I can only guess about myself at that.
trying2understand
New Member
Psalm, you are so silly.
How am I or any other person to know that?
We don't even know the guy's name let alone his state of ingnorance concerning Jesus.
Now you are being your typically disingenuous self when you cant answer a question.
Why is it ok for you to set up a hypothetical scenario to prove a point but when someone else does it they are being presumptuous.
I'll try one more time then I'll concede the arguement to you and go about my business.
If this buddhist (any buddhist) was shown the truth from the Word of God, then said, " No thankyou I'll follow the teachings of Buddha as the way truth and the life"
What is his prognosis? Heaven of Hell?
Why is it ok for you to set up a hypothetical scenario to prove a point but when someone else does it they are being presumptuous.
I'll try one more time then I'll concede the arguement to you and go about my business.
If this buddhist (any buddhist) was shown the truth from the Word of God, then said, " No thankyou I'll follow the teachings of Buddha as the way truth and the life"
What is his prognosis? Heaven of Hell?
trying2understand
New Member
Psalm, this is like the fourth time.
Same answer.
It depends.
God decides.
trying2understand
New Member
Which part don't you like?
It depends?
God decides?
3AngelsMom
<img src =/3mom.jpg>
Hi Folks,
I find it extremely interesting that just in the last century people were still being TORTURED to death for not agreeing with EVERY aspect of the Catholic dogma, but NOW according to this future Pope (so they say) ANY man can enter the Kingdom of God, I guess as long as they are good people? Is that the catch?
It doesn't really make much sense.
It seems like this man is really liberal.
I recall Pope John Paul II stating once in response to the 'antichrist' accusation that HE was not the antichrist but that he felt quite sure that whoever succeeds him would be the antichrist.
I can't help but point out that if what the current Pope said is true, this man would fit right in, for it would be only with a spirit of antichrist that one could say that there is another way to heaven other than conscious, purposed decision to follow Christ, and believe in Him for Salvation.
There IS NOT any other way. The Bible says so, and regardless of the Pope, or any other man 'saying' that there is another way, the BIBLE is the highest authority and it says that there is ONE way.
To answer the question about the American indians, I think this verse answers it best....
Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
That is a very strong and poingnant statement that must not be misunderstood. It was the times of IGNORANCE that God winked at. Which WOULD NOT include people today who HAVE HEARD of God and Jesus, and STILL continue to worship other gods, and follow other doctrines, and have thought of other 'ways, truths, and lifes'.
I would say that YES the american indians will be in heaven, having never had the CHOICE to choose Christ, they are like little children who knew only what was shown to them through nature, and if memory serves me correctly they DID worship 'a' God who created them. The 'Great Spirit' in the sky. THAT would be a time of ignorance.
These people the Cardinal was speaking of DO NOT HAVE that luxury! They KNOW about Jesus, especially the Muslim, they all do.
I would be so bold to say that 99% of all the people in the world, through one medium or another have heard of the One God of the Bible, and His Son Jesus, who He sent.
The end is coming.
God Bless,
Kelly
I find it extremely interesting that just in the last century people were still being TORTURED to death for not agreeing with EVERY aspect of the Catholic dogma, but NOW according to this future Pope (so they say) ANY man can enter the Kingdom of God, I guess as long as they are good people? Is that the catch?
It doesn't really make much sense.
It seems like this man is really liberal.
I recall Pope John Paul II stating once in response to the 'antichrist' accusation that HE was not the antichrist but that he felt quite sure that whoever succeeds him would be the antichrist.
I can't help but point out that if what the current Pope said is true, this man would fit right in, for it would be only with a spirit of antichrist that one could say that there is another way to heaven other than conscious, purposed decision to follow Christ, and believe in Him for Salvation.
There IS NOT any other way. The Bible says so, and regardless of the Pope, or any other man 'saying' that there is another way, the BIBLE is the highest authority and it says that there is ONE way.
To answer the question about the American indians, I think this verse answers it best....
Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
That is a very strong and poingnant statement that must not be misunderstood. It was the times of IGNORANCE that God winked at. Which WOULD NOT include people today who HAVE HEARD of God and Jesus, and STILL continue to worship other gods, and follow other doctrines, and have thought of other 'ways, truths, and lifes'.
I would say that YES the american indians will be in heaven, having never had the CHOICE to choose Christ, they are like little children who knew only what was shown to them through nature, and if memory serves me correctly they DID worship 'a' God who created them. The 'Great Spirit' in the sky. THAT would be a time of ignorance.
These people the Cardinal was speaking of DO NOT HAVE that luxury! They KNOW about Jesus, especially the Muslim, they all do.
I would be so bold to say that 99% of all the people in the world, through one medium or another have heard of the One God of the Bible, and His Son Jesus, who He sent.
The end is coming.
God Bless,
Kelly
trying2understand
New Member
Do you just make this stuff up?
Or do you get it from the SDA handbook.
This is absolutley the most ridiculous thing that I have heard in a long long time. And considering all the time that I spend on the BB, that says alot.
GraceSaves
New Member
You are accusing the Catholic Church of universalism. Believing that any man "can" enter the Kingdom of Heaven is not saying that every man "will" enter the Kingdom of Heaven, which we do not believe, nor do we believe that "being good" gets one into Heaven. What we ARE saying is that the Holy Spirit can be working in some people even though they do not know Christ, or as the Cardinal said, "The grace of God was working in him."
John Paul II has never said that the man who succeeds him will be the antiChrist. That's ridiculous. Could you please provide the full text so we can look at it?
Wow. I feel sorry for all the children who have died in miscarriages, delivery complications, stillborn, or other problems. I guess you believe they are in hell, since they did not "consciously, proposefully decide to follow Christ."
Well, you are claiming that the Bible is the highest authority when it doesn't make that claim, so that is your first problem. Secondly, Jesus Christ IS the ONLY way to Heaven. That does not mean that one who does not know of Christ cannot be saved by Christ.
Doing a little backpeddling? You just said explicitly accepting Christ is the only way to Heaven, and you are already providing us with other ways. Looks like you have no room to talk, since you are just as guilty as us Catholics!
How do you know these people the Cardinal talked to will not one day believe in Jesus? I don't. The Cardinal doesn't. He simply said that he thinks that he will be in Heaven. As for your "they all do" statement, that is outside of your knowledge, so I hope you don't mind me not believeing you.
Hearing who Christ "IS" and being nourished enough to develop firm faith are two different things. Many on here can't/won't comprehend Catholic doctrines, and we tell them everyday! And yet you still don't "know."
This is a moot argument.
God bless,
Grant
3AngelsMom
<img src =/3mom.jpg>
Do you just make this stuff up?
Or do you get it from the SDA handbook.
This is absolutley the most ridiculous thing that I have heard in a long long time. And considering all the time that I spend on the BB, that says alot. </font>[/QUOTE]
GraceSaves
New Member
3AM...
So were you just now stating that you made it up, or that it is funny that you made it up...or what? Because I'm lost to the meaning of that last post.
God bless,
Grant
So were you just now stating that you made it up, or that it is funny that you made it up...or what? Because I'm lost to the meaning of that last post.
God bless,
Grant
3AngelsMom
<img src =/3mom.jpg>
Grant,
I think you and I both know better than that.
There is no conflict between the statement I made and the verse I supplied.
Jesus is the ONLY way.
Those who have never heard of Him WILL NOT be held accountable for rejecting Him.
Babies, the mentally retarded, and those who simply have not heard WILL NOT be held accountable.
Paul explained it best when he said that it was not until the LAW came to him that he THEN sinned and 'died'. Without knowledge of what sin is, a man is not accountable for that sin.
This is an argument that you and I should not have, considering that YOU believe in original sin, and I do not.
SO just leave it at that. My beliefs regarding how sin is imputed, is the basis for why I believe the Indians will get to heaven.
God Bless,
Kelly
ps.... the hell question. YES, all the babies, who die, all the PEOPLE who die, from Adam to me, will GO TO HELL. You have obviously forgotten my stance on hell to ask such a question.
I think you and I both know better than that.
There is no conflict between the statement I made and the verse I supplied.
Jesus is the ONLY way.
Those who have never heard of Him WILL NOT be held accountable for rejecting Him.
Babies, the mentally retarded, and those who simply have not heard WILL NOT be held accountable.
Paul explained it best when he said that it was not until the LAW came to him that he THEN sinned and 'died'. Without knowledge of what sin is, a man is not accountable for that sin.
This is an argument that you and I should not have, considering that YOU believe in original sin, and I do not.
SO just leave it at that. My beliefs regarding how sin is imputed, is the basis for why I believe the Indians will get to heaven.
God Bless,
Kelly
ps.... the hell question. YES, all the babies, who die, all the PEOPLE who die, from Adam to me, will GO TO HELL. You have obviously forgotten my stance on hell to ask such a question.
3AngelsMom
<img src =/3mom.jpg>
Grant,
I did not make it up. That would be bearing false statement, which I tend to avoid at all cost.
I will have to look to find where I read it. That may take a while. I will find it though.
I was laughing at trying's accusation that I got it out of the SDA Handbook.
THAT is truly funny.
God Bless,
Kelly
I did not make it up. That would be bearing false statement, which I tend to avoid at all cost.
I will have to look to find where I read it. That may take a while. I will find it though.
I was laughing at trying's accusation that I got it out of the SDA Handbook.
THAT is truly funny.
God Bless,
Kelly
GraceSaves
New Member
3AM,
Then please just come out and say that you do not believe that an explicit acceptance of Christ is the only way to Heaven, since you just provided many extraordinary cases in which that is NOT necessary.
Christ is the ONLY WAY, but there is more than one way to Christ.
Plus, you have not responded to your allegation against the Pope, regarding his successor. (I posted this about the same time as your most recent post, although I do expect written proof of the statement.)
God bless,
Grant
Then please just come out and say that you do not believe that an explicit acceptance of Christ is the only way to Heaven, since you just provided many extraordinary cases in which that is NOT necessary.
Christ is the ONLY WAY, but there is more than one way to Christ.
Plus, you have not responded to your allegation against the Pope, regarding his successor. (I posted this about the same time as your most recent post, although I do expect written proof of the statement.)
God bless,
Grant
trying2understand
New Member
You said that the Pope said that his successor would be the anitchrist.
You made that up right?
neal4christ
New Member
Paul seems to say that men are without excuse in Romans 1:20 because of what is revealed of God through nature.
God Bless You,
Neal
3AngelsMom
<img src =/3mom.jpg>
Paul seems to say that men are without excuse in Romans 1:20 because of what is revealed of God through nature.
God Bless You,
Neal </font>[/QUOTE]To what extent though? Does a man living in a tribe who has never seen a Bible, or heard of Jesus know from nature that it is a sin to trip on psychotropic drugs? Is it a sin? Would 'nature' tell him it was a sin to consume something in nature? (I am playing DA here, I hope you get that
My point is, if a man has no knowledge of sin, then he is still spiritually ALIVE, because it is SIN that kills. Like a little kid, who has not come to the age of accountability. They do not know that the things that they do are considered sin. Therefore the things that they do are not sin!
I spent 25 years of my life doing something that is against one of the commandments in the Bible. As soon as I read that it was a sin, I never did it again.
I believe that the times which I broke the commandment, during my ignorance, God WINKED at that, but once I came to the knowledge of that commandment, God was now calling me to repent, which not only means, feel remorse, but to TURN from that sin, and stop doing it!
According to what I have read in the Bible, the verse you quoted goes right along with that. We are held accountable for what we know, regardless of the source of that knowledge.
God Bless,
Kelly
GraceSaves
New Member
3AM,
Been doing some searching, and I have yet to turn up anything on the Pope talking about his successor, EXCEPT an upcoming, yet unpublished book of poetry by him which supposedly will mention some things about his successor (though I seriously doubt he's going to be calling him the antiChrist).
I think you must be mistaken.
God bless,
Grant
Been doing some searching, and I have yet to turn up anything on the Pope talking about his successor, EXCEPT an upcoming, yet unpublished book of poetry by him which supposedly will mention some things about his successor (though I seriously doubt he's going to be calling him the antiChrist).
I think you must be mistaken.
God bless,
Grant