3AngelsMom
<img src =/3mom.jpg>
Grant,
Do you put any merit in the Fatima Prophecies?
God Bless,
Kelly
Do you put any merit in the Fatima Prophecies?
God Bless,
Kelly
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A sincere question for Catholics
- Thread starter 3AngelsMom
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GraceSaves
New Member
I'm aware of them but also know nothing about them. So I couldn't tell you either way. However, nothing in them could add upon the already revealed and closed public revelation.
God bless,
Grant
3AngelsMom
<img src =/3mom.jpg>
Grant,
According to every word I have ever read about the Fatima Prophecies, they are messages given by apparitions of Mary.
Would you put more clout in Mary than in the Pope? Do you believe her over the Pope?
According to the apparition:
"Do not go about disparaging your Holy Father, Pope Paul VI. He is not the antichrist... He is not the antichrist pope. The next one shall be he."
Eve of the Visitation of the Blessed Virgin Mary - May 30, 1978
So according to 'her' Pope John Paul I was the antichrist Pope.
Interesting.
I'll keep looking, I DID NOT MAKE THIS UP!
I heard it or read it somewhere, and I will find out where I heard it!
God Bless,
Kelly
According to every word I have ever read about the Fatima Prophecies, they are messages given by apparitions of Mary.
Would you put more clout in Mary than in the Pope? Do you believe her over the Pope?
According to the apparition:
"Do not go about disparaging your Holy Father, Pope Paul VI. He is not the antichrist... He is not the antichrist pope. The next one shall be he."
Eve of the Visitation of the Blessed Virgin Mary - May 30, 1978
So according to 'her' Pope John Paul I was the antichrist Pope.
Interesting.
I'll keep looking, I DID NOT MAKE THIS UP!
I heard it or read it somewhere, and I will find out where I heard it!
God Bless,
Kelly
L
LaRae
Guest
You heard or read misinformation. I have read alot about Fatima....Mary did not say ANY pope was going to be the anti Christ.
LaRae
GraceSaves
New Member
Is it just me, or is it REALLY funny, 3AM, that you are using Marian appiritions to speak about the Antichrist and the Papacy. 
God bless,
Grant
God bless,
Grant
DanielFive
New Member
LARae,
Just a point of interest, do you know anything about the secret that was never revealed by the Vatican. I remember hearing about this years ago. (When I was catholic) Rumour had it that the secret detailed the collapse of the catholic church and bloodshed in the Vatican City...streets running red with the blood of the priests, something like that.
God Bless
Enda
L
LaRae
Guest
LARae,
Just a point of interest, do you know anything about the secret that was never revealed by the Vatican. I remember hearing about this years ago. (When I was catholic) Rumour had it that the secret detailed the collapse of the catholic church and bloodshed in the Vatican City...streets running red with the blood of the priests, something like that.
God Bless
Enda </font>[/QUOTE]Hi Enda,
Actually the 3rd secret has been revealed and Grant posted the link for that info.
Sorry to disappoint those who were rubbing their hands in glee at the idea of the collapse of the Catholic Church (not talking to you here Enda)....but it ain't gonna happen....afterall Christ said the gates of hell shall not prevail!
Anyway....read the link....it talks about all 3 messages of Fatima and the Pope etc.
LaRae
Sorry to disappoint those who were rubbing their hands in glee at the
idea of the collapse of the Catholic Church (not talking to you here Enda)....
but it ain't gonna happen....afterall Christ said the gates of hell shall not prevail!
Any new viewers should be informed that it is the stance of the Catholic Church
that Christ was referring to their church as the one that "all the gates of hell
shall not prevail against".
Jesus could never have been referring to the Catholic Church via Peter as Peter
obviously failed to start the Catholic Church in his lifetime. It was Ignatius who took
the common term "catholic", added a capital C and named his church that.
Peter also didn't seem to ever refer to anything that reflected the likes of the
RCC today.
The gates of hell will not prevail against believers. Discouragement cannot overcome
the faith we have in our eternal salvation. We know the savior, we accepted Him
for who He claimed to be. That is the message of the cross and the emphasis as
stated by Jesus. He commonly asked "Who do you say that I am?" That is yet today
what mankind has to affirm within ourselves. Do we believe that He died and rose again...
or do we not? Confession is made with the mouth and belief is derived from the heart.
That is how we receive the Holy Spirit and eternal life. Those are the gates that Hell
shall not prevail against.
Singer
idea of the collapse of the Catholic Church (not talking to you here Enda)....
but it ain't gonna happen....afterall Christ said the gates of hell shall not prevail!
Any new viewers should be informed that it is the stance of the Catholic Church
that Christ was referring to their church as the one that "all the gates of hell
shall not prevail against".
Jesus could never have been referring to the Catholic Church via Peter as Peter
obviously failed to start the Catholic Church in his lifetime. It was Ignatius who took
the common term "catholic", added a capital C and named his church that.
Peter also didn't seem to ever refer to anything that reflected the likes of the
RCC today.
The gates of hell will not prevail against believers. Discouragement cannot overcome
the faith we have in our eternal salvation. We know the savior, we accepted Him
for who He claimed to be. That is the message of the cross and the emphasis as
stated by Jesus. He commonly asked "Who do you say that I am?" That is yet today
what mankind has to affirm within ourselves. Do we believe that He died and rose again...
or do we not? Confession is made with the mouth and belief is derived from the heart.
That is how we receive the Holy Spirit and eternal life. Those are the gates that Hell
shall not prevail against.
Singer
3AngelsMom
<img src =/3mom.jpg>
Actually, funny is EXACTLY what I was being. I figured if you couldn't believe that the Pope would admit that the CC has a major part in the Antichrist coming on the scene then perhaps you would believe a Marian apparition would say it.Originally posted by GraceSaves:
Is it just me, or is it REALLY funny, 3AM, that you are using Marian appiritions to speak about the Antichrist and the Papacy.
God bless,
Grant
Either way, BOTH of them said it, and it is only a matter of me finding the time to find out where I heard that.
I WILL find it.
God Bless,
Kelly
3AngelsMom
<img src =/3mom.jpg>
In case you didn't see it, I DID provide reference to where and when the apparition said this. The site I got it from is http://www.tldm.org/default.htm
It seems to be a very Catholic site.
Why would they misinform me?
God Bless,
Kelly
If we can depart from that favouritetopic amongst some evangelicals, that of Antichrist Spotting, and return to the original subject of the thread...
I think that Rahner's concept as opposed to his own particular definition of 'anonymous' or 'unconscious' Christian, is useful here; we could say that anyone who has not heard or is incapable of hearing/understanding the Gospel can come to Jesus without perhaps being fully aware of Him - this would cover people like Cornelius before Peter's visit,those who worshipped the Unknown God, the Native Americans, infants, the unborn, mentally handicapped etc. I find the view that these categories of people go to Hell abhorrent and wholly inconsistent with the justice and mercy of God. This is quite different from say the Buddhist who has the Gospel properly explained to him, is capable of making a free reseponse to it and nevertheless rejects Jesus; I rather fear that that guy is destined for somewhere hot and unpleasant.
Yours in Christ
Matt
I think that Rahner's concept as opposed to his own particular definition of 'anonymous' or 'unconscious' Christian, is useful here; we could say that anyone who has not heard or is incapable of hearing/understanding the Gospel can come to Jesus without perhaps being fully aware of Him - this would cover people like Cornelius before Peter's visit,those who worshipped the Unknown God, the Native Americans, infants, the unborn, mentally handicapped etc. I find the view that these categories of people go to Hell abhorrent and wholly inconsistent with the justice and mercy of God. This is quite different from say the Buddhist who has the Gospel properly explained to him, is capable of making a free reseponse to it and nevertheless rejects Jesus; I rather fear that that guy is destined for somewhere hot and unpleasant.
Yours in Christ
Matt
trying2understand
New Member
Check the SDA handbook.
This stuff is too kooky for even the strident anti-Catholic to swallow.
If there were even an ounce of semi half distorted truth to any of it, it would have spread like wildfire through the anti-Catholic bigot grapevine and there would be countless books and Chick tracts on it.
BTW, you claim to be so careful about false witness but your story has changed from "the Pope said" to "Mary said".
Doesn't seem like you are being all that careful to me.
L
LaRae
Guest
In case you didn't see it, I DID provide reference to where and when the apparition said this. The site I got it from is http://www.tldm.org/default.htm
It seems to be a very Catholic site.
Why would they misinform me?
God Bless,
Kelly </font>[/QUOTE]Perhaps they got their wires crossed....HOWEVER if you both to read the link Grant provided..from the VATICAN website....you will find a whole section on Fatima ....and it's the accurate info.
So either you CHOOSE to believe false information or you CHOOSE to believe true information.
Now that you have access to an accurate source (via the link to the Vatican website)....I trust you will no longer spread misinformation about Fatima.
LaRae
This is quite different from say the Buddhist who has the Gospel properly
explained to him, is capable of making a free reseponse to it and nevertheless rejects Jesus (Matt Black)
Matt, beware that it it not the rejection of Jesus that is the issue between
Evangelicals and Catholics. Evangelicals contend that the Gospel is the hearing of
the Good News that a savior was prophesied, born, lived, died and was
ressurrected per the New Testament story and that salvation and the filling of the
Holy Spirit arises out of our ''accepting'' this truth and this personal power.
A good Catholic would add to that Gospel and project that the mission of Jesus
the Christ was to establish the Catholic Church via Peter and the promise that the
gates of hell shall not prevail against the "church" that would be built upon the rock.
That verse is the core of Catholicism; yet there was the Good News proclaimed to us
by Jesus long before Catholicism evolved; Jesus was promised from the ''foundation
of the world" with no mention of a "Church" leading the way.
The Fatima process is suspect of integrity by Evangelicals because it is more of the
Mary Worship Process Thingy of which is not scriptural.
The Good News is misportrayed in the likes of comment as such by BB's own Thes:
Salvation is through the Church.
Christ established one Church for that very purpose. It is through the
Church that Christ established that we find Christ and it is through the
Church that we live a Christ filled life.
If you guys want to putter around the edges in your little nondenominational
assembly, that's up to you.
But if you want to meet our Lord in the flesh in this life, you'll have to
meet Him in the Church.
Thessalonian on the BB 5/30/03
One only need to know or BE a recipient of God's grace and infilling spirit
to know that this comment is offbase. God, the creator of heaven and earth
who has the power over life and death, the turbulent seas, tornadoes, time and
space IS NOT DEPENDENT UPON THE CATHOLIC CHURCH TO DEPART SALVATION !!
explained to him, is capable of making a free reseponse to it and nevertheless rejects Jesus (Matt Black)
Matt, beware that it it not the rejection of Jesus that is the issue between
Evangelicals and Catholics. Evangelicals contend that the Gospel is the hearing of
the Good News that a savior was prophesied, born, lived, died and was
ressurrected per the New Testament story and that salvation and the filling of the
Holy Spirit arises out of our ''accepting'' this truth and this personal power.
A good Catholic would add to that Gospel and project that the mission of Jesus
the Christ was to establish the Catholic Church via Peter and the promise that the
gates of hell shall not prevail against the "church" that would be built upon the rock.
That verse is the core of Catholicism; yet there was the Good News proclaimed to us
by Jesus long before Catholicism evolved; Jesus was promised from the ''foundation
of the world" with no mention of a "Church" leading the way.
The Fatima process is suspect of integrity by Evangelicals because it is more of the
Mary Worship Process Thingy of which is not scriptural.
The Good News is misportrayed in the likes of comment as such by BB's own Thes:
Salvation is through the Church.
Christ established one Church for that very purpose. It is through the
Church that Christ established that we find Christ and it is through the
Church that we live a Christ filled life.
If you guys want to putter around the edges in your little nondenominational
assembly, that's up to you.
But if you want to meet our Lord in the flesh in this life, you'll have to
meet Him in the Church.
Thessalonian on the BB 5/30/03
One only need to know or BE a recipient of God's grace and infilling spirit
to know that this comment is offbase. God, the creator of heaven and earth
who has the power over life and death, the turbulent seas, tornadoes, time and
space IS NOT DEPENDENT UPON THE CATHOLIC CHURCH TO DEPART SALVATION !!
trying2understand
New Member
Kelly dear, let's start with this. You said the Pope would be the "antichrist" - your link says the "antipope".
Look at the dates of when Mary is supposed to be talking about these things.
May 13, 1978
Nov 20, 1976
March 18, 1977
Sept 7, 1978
Dec 31, 1977
Our Lady appeared to the children in a vision in 1917!!
Why would they lie to you? Because they have an agenda. This is a schismatic bunch who want to turn back time. They are unhappy with Vatican II and are trying to make some wacky claim that satan entered the Church with Vatican II.
These guys are kooks.
THAT WEBSITE IS NOT (REPEAT NOT) A CATHOLIC SOURCE!!!!
Kelly, The next logical question then is why "share the gospel throughout the world" if by sharing we make some accountable and destined for Hell, just by sharing with them. Left alone they will go to Heaven, share Jesus with them and they may not. This has always been troubling to me. The belief that holds closet to the word of God is that only those who are elected by God and given as a gift from the Father to the Son will enter Heaven (John 17). The way the elect are known is by their belief in Christ, their receiving of the Holy Spirit and the working out of their faith.
That said, I am still seeking God on this because children and those who haven't heard going to Hell is a tough concept. I do though understand the thought that says it isn't unfair for someone to get what they deserve and we all enter the world deserving Hell. The point here we have to stay true to scripture and not let our feelings get in the way.
Seeking Truth always,
Brian
That said, I am still seeking God on this because children and those who haven't heard going to Hell is a tough concept. I do though understand the thought that says it isn't unfair for someone to get what they deserve and we all enter the world deserving Hell. The point here we have to stay true to scripture and not let our feelings get in the way.
Seeking Truth always,
Brian
With the Catholic Heirarchy making proclamations like the following, it is no
wonder that even apparitions of Mary are assumed to be Holy and authentic.
"We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is
absolutely NECESSARY FOR the SALVATION of
every human creature to be SUBJECT TO THE
ROMAN PONTIFF (POPE)."
--POPE BONIFACE VIII, BULL UNUN SANCTUM, 1302
wonder that even apparitions of Mary are assumed to be Holy and authentic.
"We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is
absolutely NECESSARY FOR the SALVATION of
every human creature to be SUBJECT TO THE
ROMAN PONTIFF (POPE)."
--POPE BONIFACE VIII, BULL UNUN SANCTUM, 1302
thessalonian
New Member
This is funny. The Fatima apparitions happened in 1917 I believe on the eve of the Russian Revolution. Paul VI may have been in diapers but he would certainly not have been named Paul VI either.
Now there were some alleged apparitions going on around 1978 called the Bayside Apparitions. Likely this is where it came from. Interesting thing about them is that the woman having them had dabbled in satanism if I recall correctly. But then with a founder like Ellen G. White it might be a little difficult to discern a true apparition from a false one. There are angels of light running around after all.
Blessings
L
LaRae
Guest
This is funny. The Fatima apparitions happened in 1917 I believe on the eve of the Russian Revolution. Paul VI may have been in diapers but he would certainly not have been named Paul VI either.
Now there were some alleged apparitions going on around 1978 called the Bayside Apparitions. Likely this is where it came from. Interesting thing about them is that the woman having them had dabbled in satanism if I recall correctly. But then with a founder like Ellen G. White it might be a little difficult to discern a true apparition from a false one. There are angels of light running around after all.
Blessings </font>[/QUOTE]Just so it's clear to the non-Catholics....the alleged bayside apparitions have been denounced by the Catholic Church.
LaRae