Originally posted by Kathryn:
[QB] Kelly:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> I am going to have to say, that up until a few months ago, I was one of those people who were constantly looking to the CC for the antichrist. I have recently come to the conclusion that the antichrist will come out of the SECOND beast in Revelation. The one that comes out of the earth (as opposed to Pagan Rome, the one that came out of the 'sea').
This is what happens with private interpretation of scriptures. “But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation”. 2 Peter 1:20
If it was the Holy Spirit leading in the interpretation it would not be wrong.</font>[/QUOTE]Do you know what I am talking about when I say the SECOND Beast? It is not private interpretation at all. There are many, worldwide, who believe that the first Beast in Revelation, that rises up out of the 'sea' or 'multitudes of people' is Pagan Rome, the city on Seven Hills. The Second Beast rises up out of the 'earth' or the direct opposite 'an unpopulated area'. The 'many' who agree on this believe that the Second Beast is the USA. It has two horns, unlike the Roman Beast with 10. Rome's Empire, at the height of it's world control was made up of 13 nations, and then just as the prophecy states, had 3 plucked up, or cut out, and then it stood as 10 nations. The USA Beast with two horns is represented by the two divisions of our government. The USA Beast has also proven itself through it's actions that 'appear as a lamb, but speak as a dragon' especially recently with it's 'anti-God' campaign.
Most claim whatever present Pope is the Anti-Christ until he is about the die, then switch to then next, or a future Pope. Been going on for quite a while. It is pretty obvious this one wasn’t it. So, the next one probably is. All guess work and bearing false witness on people. Scripture teaches the Anti-Christ will deny the divinity of Jesus Christ. No Pope has taught this.
Actually the Bible doesn't say anything about the antichrist denying the divinity of anyone! The antichrist SPIRIT is that spirit which denies several things.
1. Denies that Jesus is THE CHRIST.
2. Denies the Father and the Son.(1Jo 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.)
3. Denies that Jesus Christ came in the FLESH.(1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.; 2Jo 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.)
Ok, so on those 3 points which is ALL the Bible says about this 'antichrist' spirit, there is no mention of the diety of Christ.
Just as you said, this 'witch hunt' aimed at the Pope is pretty rediculous considering that the Pope represents a Church that believes all three of those things!
That is why I believe that the antichrist power will come from the USA, a country that is denying God by it's actions a little more every day!
Actually it was a Seventh Day Adventist billboard on I-5 in Central Point, Oregon about 5 years ago that started me defending the faith. I had never seen a billboard declaring the Pope is the Anti-Christ before. The man who paid for years to have it up, was wrong, and will now have to say it is the next Pope, when that Pope dies, it will be the next one for sure. In any case I saw that the Church was being persecuted, and called names, just as Jesus Christ was, and just as Jesus Christ had promised His Church would be.
As far as that Billboard goes, there are wackos in every denomination, and the SDA is not immune to it. Ellen White (the founder, and prophet of the SDA) would not have ever endorsed such an action. If it makes any difference, I apologize for that man's unChristian behavior. Thinking something is one thing, but the only intent I can see that he had was to offend people.
As far as the persecution goes, all Christians, regardless of denomination are persecuted by the world. That's not a deciding factor to prove that the CC is the 'one true church'.
The Apocalypse or Revelation is the “revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (1 Cor 1:7), “when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire: (2 Thes 1:7), “the Grace that is coming to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ” (1 Pt 1:13), “so will it be on the day when the Son of man is revealed” Lk 17:30. It is in other words, the manifestation of the triumph of Christ, which is coming very soon. It is this fact that the revelation to John is about.
Ok, so then what about Daniel? Daniel gives us more light on the Beasts than the Revelation does. You can write off the book of Revelation as mere poetry, or call it an extension of the Gospels,but the book of Daniel was written THOUSANDS of years before Christ even CAME.
This triumph of Jesus Christ exists on several different planes the Apocalypse tells us : Jesus Christ "who is and who was and who is to come" Rev 1:8. That is what it is about.
So then what about the Seven Seals, Bowls, and Trumpets?? What part of 'the Triumph of Jesus' are those about? I'm sorry, but you can't just throw out all the prophecies in the book of Revelation just because they might be pointing to your church. No offense or anything, but there is a pretty good chance that each of the major denominations in the world RIGHT NOW will play a major role in the fulfillment of the prophecies in both Daniel and Revelation. Since the CC is the LARGEST, most worldwide church out there, it is impossible to deny that it will play a role. Keep in mind, this is the Laodicean age. The Church of God (worldwide body of believers) is in a 'lukewarm' state.
This triumph of Jesus Christ is a fact that has taken place, is an enduring reality, and is a future promise. Most of the Apocalypse is about the final triumph at the end of time, but it also means the here and now, as well as the past.
Now, that is a Historical view of Prophecy, which most SDA's adhere to. I do not believe that the Prophecies are all future tense (like the Left Behind heresy books).
Much of it is about Christ’s triumph as a single reality, in which past, present, and future are fused into one. This is why John can say it comes soon. This theme of past, present, and future all being real at the same time runs all through the Bible. Past, present, and future are mingled into one vision. The destruction of the Jerusalem is mingled with His description of the end times.
Again, that is a Historic view. I thought the CC was preterist? hmmm.
The Apocalypse was written not to tell us about future historic events, but to console us in our faith. It isn’t “sacred fortune telling” for Christians to guess about. But many ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do other scriptures. (2 Pt 3:16) It is very much about what we have now, and what we will have in the future….. Eternal life with Jesus Christ and all about His triumph in glory.
There it is! There is no possible way that you could ever convince me that the words written in the book of Revelation ARE NOT about future events. NO WAY. I agree that it isn't sacred fortune telling, but it is FOR SURE a picture of the future fate of the Church of God, and the wicked. I totally agree with you that people have twisted it to their own distruction because in the Left Behind series that now have LOST people thinking that after the Rapture they can repent and come to God, and get to go to heaven, as long as they don't take the mark of the beast!!! What a LIE. The Bible is REALLY clear when it says NONE of them repented of their blasheming (during the 7 plagues). The simple fact that they are promoting a 7 year duration of tribulation tells me they are a bunch of liars, because there isn't even a time prophecy in the Bible that lasts 7 years!
The kingdom of God is already here, and will reach its fulfillment when Jesus Christ comes in glory.
To an extent, yes.
The supper of the lamb is already here, the marriage feast of the lamb is yet to come.
Are you referring to the Lord's TABLE?
The bride of Christ is already here, the wedding is yet to come.
Question: How can the Bride of Christ already be HERE if you believe that the dead in Christ are already in Heaven? hmmm
We are in the end times now and have been for a very long time. Too many have missed it and are looking for the Whore of Babylon rather than the Bride of Christ which is His own body….the Church.
Who is looking for the Whore, that missed the Body? I don't know of a single LOST person who is seeking to understand the Prophecies of the Revelation. Most lost people couldn't care less as to what the Bible says! What have they missed? The Body of Christ is not the CC. The Body of Christ is the WORLDWIDE Church of God. ALL OF US.
The pillar and foundation of truth with the keys of the kingdom, the light of the world, the city set on a hill.
I'm sorry. The CC is NOT a pillar of TRUTH. You might have some doctrines that are correct, but the CC has many others that are WAY WRONG. I'm not alone in this conclusion. There are many protestant denominations, that saw the errors in the CC and left. Those errors are still there.
The Vatican is on one hill not seven as pagan Rome was.
I got that. The Vatican rules from Rome. Rome is the City on Seven Hills. When was the Vatican first 'incorporated'? Did you know it was REALLY recently? I wonder why they did that?
As far a your unfavorable view of the Church, your version of history is from the same people who teach the Church is the whore of Babylon.
My version? I'm sorry I learned about the unfavorable actions of the CC when in High School, and college. From SECULAR books. I have a secular history book on my shelf right now that tells of all the terrrible things the CC did. I went to a display at the Museum of History (aka Museum of MAN) in Balboa Park and SAW the torture machines they used on so called heretics. I touched them!
Secular academic history shows a different and much truer perspective of Church history.
HA! My view of history is FROM the 'secular perspective' so what do you make of that?
Jesus Christ has promised to separate the wheat from the chaff. The next time you hear Protestants sing in their congregations “Faith of Our Fathers” and hear about the blood that was shed, realize that this was a Catholic song written by a Catholic about Catholic martyrs for the faith…just a little history trivia.
Interesting. Where was that? In Ireland? When was that song referring to? WHO killed them? The CC's history is riddled with violence from within. They killed more of their own MEMBERS than anyone else! Does the CC sing that song?
God Bless,
Kelly
