A Statement from the Calvinism Advisory Committee

[annsni]

Jesus said things happen by chance.

Can you show me where He says this?

 

[Van]

Hi Ann, yes. When someone like me, or another questionable source makes a claim concerning what scriptures say, it is easy now with our computers to check what they say.

1) First google Biblegateway.com.

2) Then click on the left "Keyword Search"

3) Enter the word "chance"

4) Select the New American Standard Bible

5) Click on search

6) Read all four verses where "chance" appears.

7) Luke 10:31 reads, 31 And by chance a priest was going down on that road, and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side

 

[agedman]

Hi Ann, yes. When someone like me, or another questionable source makes a claim concerning what scriptures say, it is easy now with our computers to check what they say.

1) First google Biblegateway.com.

2) Then click on the left "Keyword Search"

3) Enter the word "chance"

4) Select the New American Standard Bible

5) Click on search

6) Read all four verses where "chance" appears.

7) Luke 10:31 reads, 31 And by chance a priest was going down on that road, and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side

Van,

Do you suppose that God leaves anything up to "chance" as if it is a typical roll of the dice definition?

If God knows the number of stars and their course, knows the number of hairs on your head so that if one falls out he adjusts the number, knows when the sparrow falls, the blooming of the flower...

Do you suppose that God lets such an most important event as the salvation of a person up to "chance" as you would imply it to be defined?

I am truly astounded!

Folks, chance means the convergence of time in which it was customary for the actors of this parable to travel the same road and so it was that the folks came together. It is the intersection of events in time and space in which every human has experienced.

Just as one walking into the church as one customarily does with everyone else meeting various folks. There is NO "chance" as one would play a game with dice.

The Scriptures state our steps are ordered by the Lord, and in another place, ...He shall direct your path. One who delights in the Lord may rest in the security of knowing that even if you fail and fall, God will uphold you. He is faithful - even in our own unfaithfulness.

If one takes a word in which there is multiple definitions, the acceptable definition MUST be one that conforms to the nature and character of God.

For instance, using the bing definition:

chance [ chanss ]

likelihood that something will happen: the degree of probability that something will happen
opportunity or opportune time: an opportunity or a set of circumstances that makes it possible for something to happen
gamble or risk: a gamble or other act involving uncertainty or risk​

The one in bold is the one that fits God's nature and character.

In the case of the parable, circumstances converged that the encounter took place.

 

[Van]

Hi Agedman, I answered all your questions in a previous post from scripture, showing your assertions were not biblical.

Scripture says things happen by chance, not one but at least three. Exhaustive Determinism is mistaken doctrine.

Now you post up yet another in a stream of misapplied verses. We make plans but God directs our steps. What that means is we operate within the purview allowed by God. He can cause us to do such and such, or He can allow us to make choices according to His purpose and plan.

Next we get the argument from the "character of God" Never mind God says this, it does not mean this because of the Calvinist view of the character of God. Silly. Is God the author of sin. If God predestines our sins, He is the author of those sins. So using the non-Calvinist view of the character of God, He causes or allows whatsoever comes to pass. He allows us to sin, and He allows chance encounters. This is the God of the bible.

Basically wherever scripture teaches Calvinism is mistaken doctrine, why the verse does not mean what it says, we must redefine the meaning of the words to make it conform with the man-made traditions of men. When a chance meeting occurs, say on a road, it means the meeting was not prearranged or foreseen. An accidental meeting or event. Jesus describing reality as at least some things happening without being prearranged demonstrates that Exhaustive Determinism, God predestines whatsoever comes to pass, is mistaken and unbiblical doctrine.

 

[annsni]

Hi Agedman, I answered all your questions in a previous post from scripture, showing your assertions were not biblical.

You did not. You showed one verse that says "by chance". Do you really think God was in heaven going "Oh wow!! Look what's happening!! I'm shocked!"??

 

[Van]

Ann, let me count the errors:

1) I referenced 4 verses that translate various Hebrew and Greek words as chance. Three of those verses indicate things happen by chance, not prearranged. Did you use the method to bring up

1 Samuel 6:9
2 Samuel 1:6
Ecclesiastes 9:11
Luke 10:31​

2) I was referring to post #100 which answers about 2 dozen of Agedman questions. Now after spending the time to answer his avalanche of questions, your response is "you did not answer."

3) Did I say God said Oh Wow? No, Ann, those are your words. When God allows something to happen, he is not surprised it happens. Duh

Bottom line, Calvinism has once again been shown from scripture to be mistaken doctrine, and once again the Calvinist defending the doctrine has ignored nearly all the passages which proclaim Calvinism mistaken doctrine.

 

[Tom Bryant]

So how is this even remotely about the Committee's report?

 

[annsni]

Ann, let me count the errors:

1) I referenced 4 verses that translate various Hebrew and Greek words as chance. Three of those verses indicate things happen by chance, not prearranged. Did you use the method to bring up

1 Samuel 6:9
2 Samuel 1:6
Ecclesiastes 9:11
Luke 10:31​

Well, let's see. 1 Samuel is unbelievers speaking so I don't think they are authorities on God. 2 Samuel is also is from a man speaking about his situation and is not an authority on God. Ecclesiastes doesn't necessarily mean "chance" - the word means "event" or "occurrence" and doesn't mean a random occurrence.

That leaves us with Luke 10:31. Does that mean that God had nothing to do with what happened? That it was completely random that the man walked along? I do not believe that at all.

Vines's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words says "lit., "a meeting together with, a coincidence of circumstances, a happening," is translated "chance" in Luk 10:31. But concurrence of events is what the word signifies, rather than chance."

2) I was referring to post #100 which answers about 2 dozen of Agedman questions. Now after spending the time to answer his avalanche of questions, your response is "you did not answer."

I'm sorry - I didn't see your previous post.

3) Did I say God said Oh Wow? No, Ann, those are your words. When God allows something to happen, he is not surprised it happens. Duh

So God knew it was going to happen but it was just chance?

Bottom line, Calvinism has once again been shown from scripture to be mistaken doctrine, and once again the Calvinist defending the doctrine has ignored nearly all the passages which proclaim Calvinism mistaken doctrine.

Nope - bottom line is that things don't just happen by chance. "Calvinism" is Scripturally based and it must be since I first learned of it by reading the Scriptures and having my "free will" beliefs challenged by God. I didn't even know what Calvinism or the Doctrine of Grace was. I just knew "Wait a minute!! You mean God is active in this????"

 

[Van]

Ann, you can assert things do not happen by chance and nullify scripture till the cows come home. We have Jesus telling us things happen by chance, and some verses in the OT which also indicate things happen by chance. What that means is the event was not prearranged.

Calvinism is based on nullifying scripture after scripture, oh that is in a parable, and that one in poetry, but if a verse is found supporting Calvinism view in either genre, why it is the inerrant word of God.

Calvinism has no basis in scripture whatsoever, at least the TULI of the TULIP as I have shown repeatedly.

 

[Van]

So how is this even remotely about the Committee's report?

Hi Tom, here is what I said:

Folks, in case you do not realize it, Sovereignty is Calvinism's code for Exhaustive Determinism. And Exhaustive determinism is shown to be false because Jesus said things happen by chance.

3) God is sovereign in salvation, yet individuals are still held responsible for their reception or rejection of the Gospel. Calvinism claims even though the fallen are unable to receive the gospel, God punishes the fallen even though they are compelled to reject the gospel.

The issue that divides the SBC on Sovereignty is whether God predestines whatsoever comes to pass, the Calvinist view, or God causes or allows whatsoever comes to pass, the non-Calvinist view.

We agree that God is absolutely sovereign in initiating salvation, uniting the believer to Himself, and preserving the believer to the end, but we differ as to how God expresses His sovereignty with respect to human freedom.

 

[Revmitchell]

So how is this even remotely about the Committee's report?

It is not. However, the idea that Jesus said things happen by chance or that God does not know anything or that He learns is absolute heresy.

 

[Van]

Hi Revmitchell, it is absolute heresy to deny Jesus said things happen by chance, Luke 10:31. See post #110 which addresses the Sovereignty issue in the report.

Now Omniscience has nothing to do with the report, and whether or not God learns has nothing to do with the report. What we have is an effort to change the subject away from the mistaken doctrines of the TULI.

 

[annsni]

Ann, you can assert things do not happen by chance and nullify scripture till the cows come home. We have Jesus telling us things happen by chance, and some verses in the OT which also indicate things happen by chance. What that means is the event was not prearranged.

Calvinism is based on nullifying scripture after scripture, oh that is in a parable, and that one in poetry, but if a verse is found supporting Calvinism view in either genre, why it is the inerrant word of God.

Calvinism has no basis in scripture whatsoever, at least the TULI of the TULIP as I have shown repeatedly.

Jesus didn't say things happened by chance. He did not speak in English on earth so understanding the meaning of the word in the original language makes all the difference in the world.

And taking Old Testament passages that are a man speaking (some are unbelieving men too!) does not a doctrine make.

God is not a God of "chance". Nothing happens in this world outside of God's control and without His approval. "Chance" has nothing to do with it.

 

[annsni]

Let's take a look at some other Scriptures that shed some more light on the subject. Remember - God doesn't contradict:

Proverbs 16:33 "The lot is cast into the lap,
but its every decision is from the Lord"

Proverbs 20:24 "A man's steps are from the Lord;
how then can man understand his way?"

Proverbs 21:1 "The king's heart is a stream of water in the hand of the Lord;
he turns it wherever he will."

Jeremiah 10:23 "I know, O Lord, that the way of man is not in himself,
that it is not in man who walks to direct his steps."

 

[Mexdeaf]

In a rush to deny true Biblical doctrine, men create false doctrines based upon shoddy Biblical exegesis or upon taking Scripture out of context.

And that's the facts, Jack.

 

[Tom Bryant]

It is not. However, the idea that Jesus said things happen by chance or that God does not know anything or that He learns is absolute heresy.

I agree totally and completely, but there are hundreds of threads for Van to put forth his error and others to dispute it.

 

[preacher4truth]

Van has an incorrect view of God.

God has a correct view of Van.

 

[Iconoclast]

Let's take a look at some other Scriptures that shed some more light on the subject. Remember - God doesn't contradict:

Proverbs 16:33 "The lot is cast into the lap,
but its every decision is from the Lord"

Proverbs 20:24 "A man's steps are from the Lord;
how then can man understand his way?"

Proverbs 21:1 "The king's heart is a stream of water in the hand of the Lord;
he turns it wherever he will."

Jeremiah 10:23 "I know, O Lord, that the way of man is not in himself,
that it is not in man who walks to direct his steps."

These clear statements are given to instruct all saints that God being in control is a great blessing. We can pray knowing that God has designed great things for us providentially in answer to prayer.
We should not let anyone attempt to steal this blessing away,because they lack understanding and desire to resist truth.They say they want truth...but if they do not see it as truth,and turn from it...they turn to error

 

[Iconoclast]

Hi Revmitchell, it is absolute heresy to deny Jesus said things happen by chance, Luke 10:31. See post #110 which addresses the Sovereignty issue in the report.

Now Omniscience has nothing to do with the report, and whether or not God learns has nothing to do with the report. What we have is an effort to change the subject away from the mistaken doctrines of the TULI.

Van...
Ann, RM and TB...have tried to tell you in a nice way the truth of God and His word. All Christians who we could call cal...or non call....understand that nothing happens by chance,and they understand that these expressions are given for a reason in the story,as in the book of Ruth when it says

3 And she went, and came, and gleaned in the field after the reapers: and her hap was to light on a part of the field belonging unto Boaz, who was of the kindred of Elimelech.

She went out without a set plan ,Humanly speaking...it is here described as her "hap".....this is a expression of God's providence.

You have developed an agenda that causes you to see contrary verses where in reality none exist.God does not contradict himself.
For you to drone on and on from one thread to another does not change the truth.It establishes what you are teaching is false to such an extent that even the non cals cringe when they read what you suggest.
Do you not understand this? The church has explored these teachings for hundreds of years and do not believe it as you suggest.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Let's take a look at some other Scriptures that shed some more light on the subject. Remember - God doesn't contradict:

Proverbs 16:33 "The lot is cast into the lap,
but its every decision is from the Lord"

Proverbs 20:24 "A man's steps are from the Lord;
how then can man understand his way?"

Proverbs 21:1 "The king's heart is a stream of water in the hand of the Lord;
he turns it wherever he will."

Jeremiah 10:23 "I know, O Lord, that the way of man is not in himself,
that it is not in man who walks to direct his steps."

Good exegesis Ann...:thumbs: