A Text for the Calvinist

[atpollard]

Exactly.

[John 12:32-33 NIV] 32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself." 33 He said this to show the kind of death he was going to die.

The Apostle John says "not exactly" in the very next verse.

 

[atpollard]

ISRAEL .

A beautiful country.
So what?

 

[George Antonios]

Luke 13:24 says,

“Make every effort to enter through the narrow door. For many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able"

It here clearly says that the sinner was to "make every effort", where the Greek word, "ἀγωνίζομαι", means to "contend, struggle, to endeavor with strenuous zeal", etc. to get into heaven. Why the need for this, if as Reformed theology teaches that only the "elect", who have been "preordained" to eternal life, even before the world was created, can ever be saved? If the "elect" have their destination preordained for them, then surely there is no need to "contend or struggle" to get into heaven!. "contend or struggle" means that they have to DO something, which means "Justification by faith alone (which is nowhere taught in the Bible)", is wrong!

Not quite. You're right that it means that Calvinism is wrong.
And you're right that that does plainly speak of salvation by works.
But you're wrong in saying that justification by faith alone is nowhere taught in the Bible.
Paul spent his life preaching justification by faith without works.
What you're reading in Luke 13:24 is the salvation plan under the law. In the church age, we are not under the law.
We must correctly divide the dispensations, as Paul commanded us.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Not quite. You're right that it means that Calvinism is wrong.
And you're right that that does plainly speak of salvation by works.
But you're wrong in saying that justification by faith alone is nowhere taught in the Bible.
Paul spent his life preaching justification by faith without works.
What you're reading in Luke 13:24 is the salvation plan under the law. In the church age, we are not under the law.
We must correctly divide the dispensations, as Paul commanded us.

Hi, I am NOT arguing for Justification by works", at all, which is 100% against what the Holy Bible teaches. My point is, that there is not one Scripture that teaches, that a sinner is "justified", forgiven and made right with God, by "faith alone". As Jesus Himself teaches, it is "REPENTANCE and FAITH" (Mark 1:15), that saves the sinner. Reformed/Calvinistic theology is completly wrong and at odds with the Teaching of the Holy Bible, to say that a sinner can be saved by "faith alone", and that "repentance" (sorrow for personal sins) is not required to be saved. Also, their theology is quite wrong to make "repentance", a "work", as though the sinner were somehow "earning" their forgiveness! Repentance is accepting that the sinner has sinned against the Holy God of the Bible, and that they need to "confess" their sins to God, and to say they are sorry, and to accept God's forgiveness in the completed work of the Lord Jesus Christ, in His life and death. This is what the Bible teaches, but distorted by Reformed/Calvinistic theology.

 

[George Antonios]

Sermon in this text by a five-point Calvinist

:

"It is all of grace, but you still have to strive to enter" - 6:30

Self-contradictory. That's what happens when we refuse to divide the dispensations.

 

[Barry Johnson]

After ...

[Genesis 3:15 NASB] 15 And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel."

My turn, Is ALL SCRIPTURE God breathed, including John 6?

In truth, John 6 IS THE GOSPEL. It is folly to reject anything God the Son said as "not the Gospel".

This is dreadful bible study . Of Course all scripture is God breathed . Christianity 101 . So every thing Jesus said is the Gospel ? Are you sure you don't want to rethink that position .That's almost too silly to respond to ?

 

[Barry Johnson]

[John 12:32-33 NIV] 32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself." 33 He said this to show the kind of death he was going to die.

The Apostle John says "not exactly" in the very next verse.

Yes and we know how He would die . 1 cor 15 .1-4 . So its Jesus from that moment that draws .

 

[Barry Johnson]

A beautiful country.
So what?

That's probably the Gospel to you . Jesus said the word . That's the Gospel that is .

 

[Barry Johnson]

is there any evidence or suggestion in the Gospel quotes, that the words are addressed only to the Jews? At the start of the Gospel of John, we read that Jesus came to His own, but they did not accept Him, and goes on to say, "But as many as received Him" (1:11-12). There is no restriction for the Gospel, except with the "Reformed/Calvinist", who have their own "theology" above what the Word of God actually teaches! Like in the famous text of John 3:16, where "world" refers to the "whole human race", which even Calvin himself admits to in his commentary, and yet there are some who still insist, with zero Biblical justification, that "world" must mean here "elect". Soley for their purpose of their theology!

The evidence is the disciples were only sent to the Jews . And they were not preaching the Gospel as we know it as in 1cor1.15,1-4

 

[Dave G]

Acts 2:37-38, "Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” And Peter said to them, “REPENT and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

" And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard [us]: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul." ( Acts of the Apostles 16:14 ).

 

[SavedByGrace]

"It is all of grace, but you still have to strive to enter" - 6:30

Self-contradictory. That's what happens when we refuse to divide the dispensations.

The Greek verb ἀγωνίζομαι, denoted "a struggle", and the kindred noun, ἀγωνία, agony, is used of Christ’s struggle in Gethsemane. I believe that this is used to show the seriousness of the "godly sorrow" that the sinner should have when seeking forgiveness from the Lord. It is ALL of Grace, but not in the sense that the sinner does nothing! God has His requirements, repentance and faith being what He wants from the sinner, before they can be saved

 

[Dave G]

It here clearly says that the sinner was to "make every effort", where the Greek word, "ἀγωνίζομαι", means to "contend, struggle, to endeavor with strenuous zeal", etc. to get into heaven. Why the need for this, if as Reformed theology teaches that only the "elect", who have been "preordained" to eternal life, even before the world was created, can ever be saved

According to the Scriptures, the elect ( chosen ) were indeed ordained to eternal life ( Acts of the Apostles 13:48, Romans 8:29-30, Ephesians 1:4-5, 2 Thessalonians 2:13 ).
They make every effort, because that is what the Lord tells them to do...

" Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:" ( 2 Peter 1:10 ).

Falling from our steadfastness is a constant danger, and can lead believers into all kinds of doubts about the Lord and what He has done for us.
So, we strive to enter in to show that were are entering in.

It's our reasonable service:

" I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, [which is] your reasonable service." ( Romans 12:1 ).

 

[SavedByGrace]

" And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard [us]: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul." ( Acts of the Apostles 16:14 ).

Don't overlook the fact that it says,"which worshipped God", that is like Cornelius, in chapter 10, who was " A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway", both were truly seeking God in their lives, and the Lord in His Infinite Mercy, saved both!

What do you make of Acts 10:35, "But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him"?

 

[Dave G]

"It is all of grace, but you still have to strive to enter" - 6:30

Self-contradictory. That's what happens when we refuse to divide the dispensations.

But that is exactly what the Scriptures tell us, George.

It may seem contradictory to you, but I believe it by faith.
Both are true.

Salvation is all of grace ( Romans 11:5-6, Ephesians 2:8-9 ).
Striving to enter in is just as true.

 

[Barry Johnson]

" And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard [us]: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul." ( Acts of the Apostles 16:14 ).

Observation. inductive method.1) No mention of the Gospel2) She's already worshipping God 3) It doesn't say how here heart was opened . 4) This is what happened to Lydia not everyone . ( this is called inductive reasoning . One boy can Juggle 12 balls ,therefore it means all boys can juggle 12 balls )

 

[Dave G]

Don't overlook the fact that it says,"which worshipped God", that is like Cornelius, in chapter 10, who was " A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway", both were truly seeking God in their lives, and the Lord in His Infinite Mercy, saved both!

Don't overlook the fact that God opened her heart ( made her born again ).

What do you make of Acts 10:35, "But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him"?

It's a declaratory statement.
Since there is none that seek God and none that fear God ( Romans 3:10-18 and others ), then I understand that those that do, were born of God and made righteous by the blood of His Son.

Otherwise we go our own way and never seek Him.

Also, according to Ephesians 1:6, we as believers are made accepted in the beloved...
We don't make ourselves accepted with Him by performing an act.


That would be works, if God has to rely on us performing an act to gain His favor and grace.

 

[SavedByGrace]

According to the Scriptures, the elect ( chosen ) were indeed ordained to eternal life ( Acts of the Apostles 13:48, Romans 8:29-30, Ephesians 1:4-5, 2 Thessalonians 2:13 ).
They make every effort, because that is what the Lord tells them to do...

" Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:" ( 2 Peter 1:10 ).

Falling from our steadfastness is a constant danger, and can lead believers into all kinds of doubts about the Lord and what He has done for us.
So, we strive to enter in to show that were are entering in.

It's our reasonable service:

" I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, [which is] your reasonable service." ( Romans 12:1 ).

In Acts 13:48, I believe that contextually, the Greek verb τεταγμενοι, is to be understod in the "middle" (not passive) sense. This is because we read in verse 46, that the Jews (not God), "put it (the Gospel) from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life", which is "self-action".

2 Thessalonians 2:13, is a disputed reading, as there is equally strong textual evidence for the reading, "But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth" (ESV, NIV, CEV, GNT, ISV, etc), that is, the first converts in the region.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Don't overlook the fact that God opened her heart ( made her born again ).

It's a declaratory statement.
Since there is none that seek God and none that fear God ( Romans 3:10-18 and others ), then I understand that those that do, were born of God and made righteous by the blood of His Son.

Otherwise we go our own way and never seek Him.

Also, according to Ephesians 1:6, we as believers are made accepted in the beloved...
We don't make ourselves accepted with Him by performing an act.


That would be works, if God has to rely on us performing an act to gain His favor and grace.

Only God can save! Your understanding of Acts 10:35 is flawed, as it is based you theology rather than what the context actually says.

 

[SavedByGrace]

But that is exactly what the Scriptures tell us, George.

It may seem contradictory to you, but I believe it by faith.
Both are true.

Salvation is all of grace ( Romans 11:5-6, Ephesians 2:8-9 ).
Striving to enter in is just as true.

Salvation is all of grace. so no need for the hell-bound sinner to REPENT?

 

[Barry Johnson]

According to the Scriptures, the elect ( chosen ) were indeed ordained to eternal life ( Acts of the Apostles 13:48, Romans 8:29-30, Ephesians 1:4-5, 2 Thessalonians 2:13 ).
They make every effort, because that is what the Lord tells them to do...

" Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:" ( 2 Peter 1:10 ).

Falling from our steadfastness is a constant danger, and can lead believers into all kinds of doubts about the Lord and what He has done for us.
So, we strive to enter in to show that were are entering in.

It's our reasonable service:

" I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, [which is] your reasonable service." ( Romans 12:1 ).

you.ll not get very far with Dave G . He just quotes the same verses with no context.