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a woman teaching
- Thread starter Helen
- Start date
Pastor Larry said:
If Paul is addressing "people" in 3:14, why doesn't he use the plural you? Instead he used the singular(KJV thou), addressing one person, Timothy.
If 3:14 means the preceding teaching is about how people should behave in the church, must bishops only be patient in the church?
At the risk of stating the obvious, it was not in the church.
Exactly my point, which is why I have tried to focus on teh words used, the context, and the contrasts given.
There are certainly things I would clarify, or be more precise about if I were taking a lot of time to address it. In fairness to Barry, I am not sure how much studying he has done on this, if he doesnt recognize that his arguments are the arguments used by those who believe women can be pastors. Perhaps he does know that, and Helen was the only one who didn't. Quite honestly, I am not sure. And I don't mean to insinuate anything about their integrity in the discussion. I simply wonder how much study has been done if you don't recognize where the arguments come from and what they are used for.
What? He is writing to Timothy (the leader of the church whom he addresses by a singular 2 masculine verb) about "how one ought to conduct himself." The "conduct himself" is not singular; it is an infinitive and is generic ... "how one (or people) ought to conduct himself."
As the context makes clear, the qualifications for pastors refer to their whole life and qualify them to lead "in the church."
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Well, the whole tread was a challenge, a big risk.
People love to tell what they think about an issue but it wont always be full of praise but with an effort to be objective, see through the details and how it could have been better and what was wrong with the picture.
I think thats what was done here.
It offerred a challenge and many responded as they saw it.
Truly, the fist response to the OP said it all, clearly and succinctly! The rest of us just rather aired it all out a little more.
When we risk with an OP, then we must allow responses to flow in, both negative and postive. Just use the news you can use and ask our Lord to give future guidance regarding such scenarios.
People love to tell what they think about an issue but it wont always be full of praise but with an effort to be objective, see through the details and how it could have been better and what was wrong with the picture.
I think thats what was done here.
It offerred a challenge and many responded as they saw it.
Truly, the fist response to the OP said it all, clearly and succinctly! The rest of us just rather aired it all out a little more.
When we risk with an OP, then we must allow responses to flow in, both negative and postive. Just use the news you can use and ask our Lord to give future guidance regarding such scenarios.
In other words, if Barry and I present together -- and we are talking about the relationship between Genesis and science here -- in a public gathering, that is fine. But as soon as a church invites us to do it, in the same place, to essentially the same people, that is wrong.
Yeah, right...
Just to make it clear, in case it hasn't been: when Barry preaches, I never go near the front of the church! Well, I might sit in the front pew...LOL
But when we present his science, that is a team effort, because there is so much to discuss and it takes a minimum of five hours to present, even if the five hours is broken up into several days.
But, according to Larry et al here, the minute the gathering considers itself a church group, I cannot help my husband. However if the exact same people do not consider themselves a church group at that time, I am free to help.
What nonsense!
My (now deceased) mother, when my dad was alive many years ago, ran around on him with another man in town. Mom's excuse? "God is love." Her USE of that was entirely wrong, but that did not mean God is not love!
In the same way, this business of how Barry's type of explanation of the meaning of the Greek (and, according to a friend of ours who is a Greek scholar, he is exactly right) can be used by liberal churches to support a woman pastor is just as wrong as my mother's excuse for her adultery. This, however, does not make the true meaning of the passage wrong.
Wicca uses circles. Circles are not then necessarily evil; they are used by them for evil. They are still rather primary in the rest of our lives!
How something is used does not determine its veracity.
Yeah, right...
Just to make it clear, in case it hasn't been: when Barry preaches, I never go near the front of the church! Well, I might sit in the front pew...LOL
But when we present his science, that is a team effort, because there is so much to discuss and it takes a minimum of five hours to present, even if the five hours is broken up into several days.
But, according to Larry et al here, the minute the gathering considers itself a church group, I cannot help my husband. However if the exact same people do not consider themselves a church group at that time, I am free to help.
What nonsense!
My (now deceased) mother, when my dad was alive many years ago, ran around on him with another man in town. Mom's excuse? "God is love." Her USE of that was entirely wrong, but that did not mean God is not love!
In the same way, this business of how Barry's type of explanation of the meaning of the Greek (and, according to a friend of ours who is a Greek scholar, he is exactly right) can be used by liberal churches to support a woman pastor is just as wrong as my mother's excuse for her adultery. This, however, does not make the true meaning of the passage wrong.
Wicca uses circles. Circles are not then necessarily evil; they are used by them for evil. They are still rather primary in the rest of our lives!
How something is used does not determine its veracity.
James_Newman
New Member
The baptist board isn't a church, it's a circus. Thats why it is full of clowns :laugh:webdog said:
In case you already forgot, here is what you posted...2BHizown said:
The church isnt a building, but a select group of believers joined together to worship God. The group of believers could be anywhere but when spoken to, they are spoken to as the church.
Please show me anywhere the word "instruct" was used. Can you honestly tell me that you have not learned anything from Helen, Marcia, etc. here on the BB?
I think the best benefit of BB is to stimulate one to go to the source of all truth and prove their beliefs!
No reflection on any poster at all, but I dont think this is a place of learning. It may be a place of 'clarifying' some fragments you have and to search them out later in a true area of authority, such as commentaries, bible, source books of classic theology.
So much misunderstanding can be found here as there have been over time so many extreme and blatant biblical errors promoted.
We are each responsible to know God and His word and hopefully not to depend on BB as a source!!
No reflection on any poster at all, but I dont think this is a place of learning. It may be a place of 'clarifying' some fragments you have and to search them out later in a true area of authority, such as commentaries, bible, source books of classic theology.
So much misunderstanding can be found here as there have been over time so many extreme and blatant biblical errors promoted.
We are each responsible to know God and His word and hopefully not to depend on BB as a source!!
donnA said:
Kind of like what Eve did, right?
That is why we do need to discuss, Donna, and learn from each other. I have learned incredible amounts from different people here, both men and women, in the years I have been on BB. And I thank them all.
On the other hand, none of them have had any authority at all over me. I have looked up material myself to decide if what they were saying was true or not. They may have been telling me what they thought I should believe in some instances, but at no time did I have to accept it because they said it.
And that is EXACTLY the position we are in with the people who listen to us. We can tell them what we have found, how it seems to fit with Bible, and then we encourage them to dig for themselves.
mcdirector
Active Member
2BHizown said:
AMEN! I think of the BB as more of an instigator to send me looking and digging. I have been made aware of things through the BB that I'd not thought of before or not thought of in a particular way.
'instigator '
Perfect word to describe this place Bitsy!
'Instigator, agitator, perhaps even motivator, consoler, pacifier, but never as 'teacher'!
BB has made me aware of the great prevalence of error, the famine of the word, the lack of sound doctrine in the 'christian' world. Considering that I certainly would prefer my doctrinal teaching to come from one who knows, and preferably scripture itself!
Sometimes the instigators and agitators serve a purpose in causing one to run find truth. At least that is my prayer!
Perfect word to describe this place Bitsy!
'Instigator, agitator, perhaps even motivator, consoler, pacifier, but never as 'teacher'!
BB has made me aware of the great prevalence of error, the famine of the word, the lack of sound doctrine in the 'christian' world. Considering that I certainly would prefer my doctrinal teaching to come from one who knows, and preferably scripture itself!
Sometimes the instigators and agitators serve a purpose in causing one to run find truth. At least that is my prayer!