Abomination of Desolation Was Indeed Already Fulfilled

[robycop3]

You cats who believe the papacy is "the" antichrist are simply wrong. There's been no temple in Jerusalem for any pope to enter & proclaim himself to be God. Daniel, Paul, & Revelation all say ONE MAN will do that. And it hasn't yet been done.

Same for saying the AOD happened in AD70. You dudes/dudettes who believe that are just-as-wrong, & are likely preterists.(That whole doctrine is false, of course, invented by some jeezits to take the onus off the pope.) Again, STUDY SOME HISTORY & don't rely on Josephus, a Flavius toadie, to have "gotten it right". Please study Titus' actions at Jerusalem & afterwards closely. First, he did NOT enter the temple & proclaim himself God. His men did NOT worship him; they named him an "imperator", an honorary title for a general who won a great victory. And, when he became Caesar 9 years later, he had a couple of shrines built for some Roman gods/goddesses, hardly an action of someone who'd declared himself to be God ! He had NO false prophet as a sidekick, he issued no marka the beast, and he died in great honor of a fever; he was NOT cast alive into gehenna. (He was revered for providing quick help for people affected by the AD79 eruption of Vesuvius that took out Pompeii & Herculaneum.) He was not known to have persecuted Christians, * once the rebellion at Jerusalem had been crushed, he no longer warred against Jews.

In other words, Titus fell far short of the Scriptural criteria for the "beast/antichrist". The TRUE beast MUST meet ALL those criteria exactly, to the last letter. And, BTW, no pope has come close to meeting those criteria, either ! (Nor did the preterists' hero Nero !)

 

[robycop3]

The Papacy = one man at any given time. Take heed; "Vicar of Christ' = Antichrist in Greek.

But none have been the beast, nor likely will be, altho one may be "the beast from the earth", the main beast's sidekick.

 

[robycop3]

" And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate." ( Daniel 9:27 ).

I disagree.

There is only one man who will confirm a covenant with many for "one week"..."the beast".
In the midst of the "week" ( at 3.5 years ) he will enter the temple and cause the sacrifices to cease.
He will sit in the Mercy Seat and claim to be Jesus Christ...

The abomination of desolation.
Hell on earth will then be turned loose for a further 3.5 years until the Lord Jesus returns, and every eye will see Him as He comes down.

Exactly right, Dave ! The TRUE beast/antichrist MUST meet ALL the Scriptural criteria for that man exactly, to the last letter !

 

[Shoostie]

When I was too young to legally drink a beer, but old enough to be legally sodomized by a middle-aged homosexual, I attended a charismatic "baptist" church, with friends, for a number of months. The Sunday school teacher explained that Jews reject Jesus because he fulfilled only some, but not all, of the prophesies concerning the coming messiah. The teacher explained that Jews couldn't see in scripture that the messiah would take two physical comings to finish the prophecies. Hmmm, maybe that's because OT doesn't teach it would take two comings to fulfill OT prophecies?

(I'm not disputing the second coming, but that's another issue, an issue not found in the OT.)

 

[1689Dave]

But none have been the beast, nor likely will be, altho one may be "the beast from the earth", the main beast's sidekick.

The Papacy having murdered millions of Christians is not a bbbbbeast?

 

[gaviria.christian]

We are misunderstanding each other. I believe the Torah is true. So let me emphasize in all capital letters

You are not telling me why you decided to read the Torah THE VERY FIRST TIME YOU READ IT. While you still had no knowledge of what it is about.

Who conveyed to you OKAY rule #1 lets read the Torah.


Another example.

I am asking you: Why did you watch STAR WARS?

Your answer is: OF course I watch star wars its a great movie.

We both agree its great movie thats fine.....I'm asking what MOTIVATED you to even consider to watch it the first time?

Where did you first see the word TORAH? We both know it means first 5 books, because we were TAUGHT this. Someone would with actual Jewish knowledge would have to convey it to you.

I'm not seeing you pull teachings from scripture rather you got mishmash of maybe initial training and now you want to strike it out on your own.

I told you why already, because the Messiah said, "I did not come to abolish the Torah" and "whoever sets aside the least of these commands will be called least in the kingdom of the heavens". One thing points to another thing. Understand.

 

[utilyan]

I told you why already, because the Messiah said, "I did not come to abolish the Torah" and "whoever sets aside the least of these commands will be called least in the kingdom of the heavens". One thing points to another thing. Understand.

No brother I am asking WHEN and WHY did you ever read a bible in the first place.

You are answering me with "Well God says i should read a bible in the bible"

estas.....cantiflado

 

[utilyan]

The Papacy having murdered millions of Christians is not a bbbbbeast?

Source please. I've heard Catholics killed 80 million people when there wasn't even 25 million on the planet.

 

[1689Dave]

Source please. I've heard Catholics killed 80 million people when there wasn't even 25 million on the planet.

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/saint-bartholomews-day-massacre Also many other reliable resources if you google for them.

 

[robycop3]

The Papacy having murdered millions of Christians is not a bbbbbeast?

Not "the" Scriptural beast.

 

[robycop3]

Source please. I've heard Catholics killed 80 million people when there wasn't even 25 million on the planet.

No one says they killed them all at once.

 

[gaviria.christian]

No brother I am asking WHEN and WHY did you ever read a bible in the first place.

You are answering me with "Well God says i should read a bible in the bible"

estas.....cantiflado

I already answered that question also. I was raised by family and nannies that were all believers, Christians and Catholics. I began reading the scriptures as a child, because I believed in Yeshuah by what I told about him by them. Understand.

 

[John I Morris]

I told you why already, because the Messiah said, "I did not come to abolish the Torah" and "whoever sets aside the least of these commands will be called least in the kingdom of the heavens". One thing points to another thing. Understand.

The premise of this post is laughable! It has NOT happened as of yet. I don't care about where you picked this up, it is false.

 

[1689Dave]

The premise of this post is laughable! It has NOT happened as of yet. I don't care about where you picked this up, it is false.

Can you prove this from direct quotes of scripture?

 

[John I Morris]

mush

Can you prove this from direct quotes of scripture?

As well as much as you can prove that it has. Matthew 24:3-28, Has the gospel been preached in all nations yet (Mt 24:14)? Mark 13:14-23, has not happened as of yet, if you believe it has, when? 2 Thessalonians 2:7, "For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he (Holy Spirit) who now letteth [will let], until He be taken out of the way. Reference to the Holy Spirit, who will leave this earth with the redeemed in the calling out (rapture). After that event, the Tribulation will begin (Rev 4:1) and during that time the Abomination of Desolation will happen. Just a few, I'm working on my messages for this week, so I don't have time for a lengthy conversation, answer my questions as you have time.

 

[1689Dave]

mush
As well as much as you can prove that it has. Matthew 24:3-28, Has the gospel been preached in all nations yet (Mt 24:14)? Mark 13:14-23, has not happened as of yet, if you believe it has, when? 2 Thessalonians 2:7, "For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he (Holy Spirit) who now letteth [will let], until He be taken out of the way. Reference to the Holy Spirit, who will leave this earth with the redeemed in the calling out (rapture). After that event, the Tribulation will begin (Rev 4:1) and during that time the Abomination of Desolation will happen. Just a few, I'm working on my messages for this week, so I don't have time for a lengthy conversation, answer my questions as you have time.

Let's see you prove your claims. And then I'll answer.

 

[Shoostie]

The Papacy having murdered millions of Christians is not a bbbbbeast?

The papacy has murdered millions of Christians? Yes, martyred a few for practicing liberty, as governments do, but millions?

 

[Dave G]

The Papacy having murdered millions of Christians is not a bbbbbeast?

No, it's not.
"The beast" of Revelation is the same man in Daniel 9 who makes the oblation to cease.

No one has yet seen a one man world dictatorship, who everyone thinks is the Messiah, and who makes people take a mark in their forehead or in their hand.
No one has yet seen a man who has been given willing control of the nations by their citizens, who partners with a false prophet that can perform lying signs and wonders..the like which comes close to fooling even God's elect.

When you see him, you will either fall for his charade, or you will immediately run for the hills... knowing full well who he is.

 

[Dave G]

Can you prove this from direct quotes of scripture?

Have you ever read Matthew 24 and Mark 13?

Much of it is in there.
Revelation contains most of the rest, as does Daniel , 2 Thessalonians and some others.

 

[Yeshua1]

It is historical fact that the Roman emperors were worshiped as gods, which is why not only a temple was built to worship Vespasian and Titus, which is the Temple of Vespasian and Titus, but even the ensigns that were brought to the temple were images of Caesar. Without an absolute shadow of a doubt the abomination of desolation spoken by Daniel and the Messiah was the one committed by the Romans, which is why it is written, "when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies AND the abomination of desolation, then those who are in Judea flee, because its destruction is nigh". And Flavius Josephus is not the only early writer affirming this truth, but also other writers like Tertullian, who have affirmed that indeed the Romans worshiped their ensigns, which had images of Caesar, the great Roman emperor. You are ignoring fulfillment of prophecy in actual history in favor of fantasies that exist in your own head. Also, "beasts" in prophecy are nations, not "one man". You have no understanding of prophetic visions.


Now Pilate, who was sent as procurator into Judea by Tiberius, sent by night those images of Caesar that are called ensigns into Jerusalem. This excited a very among great tumult among the Jews when it was day; for those that were near them were astonished at the sight of them, as indications that their laws were trodden under foot; for those laws do not permit any sort of image to be brought into the city. Nay, besides the indignation which the citizens had themselves at this procedure, a vast number of people came running out of the country. These came zealously to Pilate to Cesarea, and besought him to carry those ensigns out of Jerusalem, and to preserve them their ancient laws inviolable; but upon Pilate's denial of their request, they fell down prostrate upon the ground, and continued immovable in that posture for five days and as many nights.
The Wars of the Jews by Flavius Josephus, Book 2, 9:2
Note: This is merely a reference to an external literature to help strengthen the statements made in this study, and not an endorsement of any other literature or statements made by Flavius Josephus.

But now Pilate, the procurator of Judea, removed the army from Caesarea to Jerusalem, to take their winter quarters there, in order to abolish the Jewish laws. So he introduced effigies of Caesar, which were upon the ensigns, and brought them into the city; whereas our law forbids us the very making of images; on which account the former procurators were wont to make their entry into the city with such ensigns as had not those ornaments.
The Antiquities by the Jews by Flavius Josephus, Book 18, 3:1
Note: This is merely a reference to an external literature to help strengthen the statements made in this study, and not an endorsement of any other literature or statements made by Flavius Josephus.

The Romans upon the flight of the seditious into the city, and upon the burning of the set-apart house itself, and of all the buildings lying round about it, brought their ensigns to the Temple, and set them over against its eastern gate; and there did they offer sacrifices to them, and there did they make Titus imperator, with the greatest acclamations of joy
The Wars of the Jews by Flavius Josephus, Book 6, 6:1
Note: This is merely a reference to an external literature to help strengthen the statements made in this study, and not an endorsement of any other literature or statements made by Flavius Josephus.

The camp religion of the Romans is all through a worship of the ensigns, setting the ensigns above all gods.
Apologetic by Tertullian, Chapter 16
Note: This is merely a reference to an external literature to help strengthen the statements made in this study, and not an endorsement of any other literature or statements made by
Tertullian.

The Identity of the Beast of Revelation, the Antichrist, the Prostitute of Babylon, the Mark of the Beast, and the Meaning of 666 | Wisdom of God

Paul stated that the man of Sin will commit that in the Temple of God, and the Lord Jesus will do His second coming to destroy him, when did that all happen?