Acts 10 - Cornelius - Question

[LaGrange]

The phrase “saving faith” is yours, not mine. However, if you wish to contend, try arguing with Paul: “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast,” Eph 2: 8-9.

see post #80

 

[LaGrange]

I’m saying what 1 Corinthians 12:13 says, that the Holy Spirit immersed me into the Body of Christ, not man. 1 Corinthians 6:17. Work of the Holy Spirit, not of a man.

I received water baptism because I was saved (regenerated), not to get saved.

The Church of Christ teaches error.

Man doesn’t immerse us in the Holy Ghost either. The Rite of Baptism is done “In the NAME of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost” just as Christ says to do in Matt 28:19. The priest does it in the God’s NAME.

 

[LaGrange]

Respectfully Ephesians 2:8-9 says no such thing about faith coming from God. But the works that should follow faith does come from God, Ephesians 2:10, ". . . For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. . . ."

Where does Faith come from?

 

[LaGrange]

Ephesians 2:8-9 says salvation is the “gift of God”. Compare to Romans 6:23, “the gift of God is eternal life”.

I already explained Eph 2:8-9 (see post #80). There are a lot of Gifts of God. In Rom 6:23 Paul is contrasting Obedience and disobedience. This is after showing us where your intitial justification comes from - Baptism (Rom 6:3-4). If you remain obedient in the Faith then, “in the end”, you will obtain everlasting life. “IF you are obedient”.

 

[LaGrange]

Phillipians 1:29 For unto you IT IS GIVEN in the behalf of Christ not only to BELIEVE ON HIM, but also to suffer for his sake.

Who gave what to whom?

You need to read some of the other posts. I have said over and over again that God’s Grace is present with is and precedes anything we do regarding salvation all the way through. We cannot do anything without God’s grace. That’s Catholic Teaching.

 

[LaGrange]

It is the "you" who is given in the behalf of Christ.

I understand that and agree with that. Maybe you need to read some of my other answers. You are defending something that doesn’t need defending.

 

[LaGrange]

BTW
The strawman arguments you made here detract from the issue. I did not use the phrases you argued against, namely “faith alone” and “saving faith.”

If you don’t understand this point, perhaps you would if someone were to argue that there are no passages with the phrases “baptism alone” or “saving baptism.”

Honestly, I know you didn’t. It was a point I wanted to make and when you quoted Acts 11:17 it reminded me of something. I had seen before where someone else had made the point that this verse and Acts 15:7 proved “Saving Faith”. Didn’t mean to undo your argument.

 

[Marooncat79]

A

My Comment: Faith and believing are not enough. I think what I’m going to need to do is a thread on justification. This is hard to explain in a couple of paragraphs. Rom 12 is about the moral obligations of christians. This is after our intitial justification (Baptism). Faith has to all be done in “Charity” (Rom 12:10) which means it has to be done in “Sanctifying Grace” (1 Cor 13). At this point (after justification or regeneration), we are in God’s Grace and then we are to exercise our faith (the virtue of Faith) and other gifts in helping our fellow man. This is exercised through such Gifts as prophecy, ministering, teaching, exhorting, etc. Rom 12:4 sounds like 1 Cor 12:12 and Rom 12:10 sounds like 1 Cor 13 regarding Charity. This is important because 1 Cor 12 are the gratuitous Gifts and 1 Cor 13 is the permanent grace, “Charity” which is poured into our hearts (Rom 5:5). So it is NOT saying Faith Alone. So Justification (Charity = regeneration = sanctifying grace) is necessary for the Gifts to flourish and for us to grow in sanctity. This ongoing sanctification/Justification is also how we persevere. Exercising Faith, in sanctifying grace, (the infused virtue of Faith) and using any of the other Gifts God gives us to help us and others grow in our Christian faith, along with a continual confessing and repenting of sin, is Saving Faith.

according to Romans 5:1. Justification is a 1 time act where the results are seen eternally

it says we have been justified not we are. It is an aeroist tense

 

[Marooncat79]

My Comment: Baptism is an instrument of God’s grace. God simply commanded it (Matt 28:19) so quickenening comes from God through Baptism.

No it doesn’t. It NEVER says that

Look at Rom 6:3-4 “For we are buried together with him by baptism into death: that, as Christ is risen from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we also may walk in newness of life.” This “newness of life” describes baptism.

Again!! No it doesn’t. Horrible correlation there

Col 2:13 “Buried with him in baptism: in whom also you are risen again by the faith of the operation of God who hath raised him up from the dead. 13 And you, when you were dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, he hath quickened together with him, forgiving you all offences:”

V 13 denies what you have stated and claim to believe

Eph 2:5 “Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together in Christ (by whose grace you are saved).” This is baptism and is a cross reference to Col 2:13.

where is baptism mentioned in Eph 2:5. B 4 says it’s of God

 

[MrW]

I was baptized into Christ by the Holy Spirit, not by man.

 

[MrW]

Baptismal regeneration is false doctrine.

It is only a symbol of the reality, done after the reality, just as the Lord’s Supper is a symbol. We don’t eat not drink literal blood and flesh.

 

[Marooncat79]

Where does Faith come from?

God

 

[Marooncat79]

A



according to Romans 5:1. Justification is a 1 time act where the results are seen eternally

it says we have been justified not we are. It is an aeroist tense

I meant - it says we have been justified, not we are being justified

it is a past act

 

[LaGrange]

God

I know. 37818 was answerIng you, not me. Did you read post #67? Maybe it was written incorrectly or I took it incorrectly. I was just trying to clarify what he was saying.

 

[Dave G]

Right - Baptism!

No sir, by the "washing" of regeneration ( making a person a new creature in Christ ) by the new birth.
In other words, baptism ( or "circumcision" ) of the heart through ( or because of ) God's miraculous power of making a person "born again".

Long time no see! Good to hear from you. I thought I would say a little more on this. We believe we are justified by His grace too and that there is nothing we can do to acquire the grace of justification before justification. We don’t believe you can earn your justification. Do you believe that?

Absolutely, and I've underlined and bolded the parts of your reply that I agree with.
However, I believe that the Scriptures teach that all of God's elect were justified at the cross ( Colossians 2:13-14. ).
He is our justification, and justified His people by His blood when it was shed for them.

The KJV says “made heirs” whereas the DRV says “be heirs”. Strong’s says it means to “become or take place” (#1096) So it means to “become heirs” or being an heir “takes place”. The word has actually a long range of meanings.

I agree, and I also see that according to the Greek, it can also mean " to be made, finished":
Verse Analysis: Titus 3:7 - Textus Receptus Bibles

See Thayer's rendition in the above.

What it doesn’t mean is that you are elected automatically to glory.

I agree that it does not necessarily mean that in this passage...but it does apply only to the believer.
To understand who it applies to ( and what God has done for them ), I rely on other things the Lord has said through His apostles and prophets....such as Romans 8, Romans 9, Ephesians 1, Ephesians 2.

What I was focusing on by giving this passage are the two things that it says ( which completely rule out works of any kind ):

1) Not by works of righteousness which we have done.
2) According to only one thing...His mercy.

Then comes the method that He has used...
The new birth, or "washing" of regeneration.

While I see it as a spiritual baptism, I do not see it as depending upon the physical act of baptism.
As a "Baptist", I see this act of God being symbolized by the believer's ( an outward confession of having received an inner change ) obedient act of being water baptized by immersion.

I wish you well, as always.

 

[37818]

Where does Faith come from?

From hearing truth. Compare John 17:17 and Romans 10:17-18.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Honestly, I know you didn’t. It was a point I wanted to make and when you quoted Acts 11:17 it reminded me of something. I had seen before where someone else had made the point that this verse and Acts 15:7 proved “Saving Faith”. Didn’t mean to undo your argument.

You didn't undo my argument. Your tactic undid your own argument.

 

[kyredneck]

Where does Faith come from?

Don't you know? The preacher hands it out in little buckets. Didn't you get yours?

 

[AustinC]

Hi Everyone,

Acts 10 - Cornelius

I thought I would keep it simple. I don’t think my long posts are always popular. My posts are usually long because I try to anticipate all the objections or the subject requires it. I’m not giving that up but I thought this would be a little change of pace. I could have started out with a long post this time too and I may put it on this thread later. We’ll see. So, instead, right now, I thought I would try to get this discussion going by simply asking this question:

Was Cornelius regenerated by Faith Alone? Water Baptism? or maybe some other means? What do you think?

Cornelius was regenerated by grace alone, which gave him the faith which alone justified Cornelius.

Faith does not function until God graciously regenerates those who are dead in sin. (Ephesians 2:1-9)

 

[AustinC]

you have to understand the full sense of scripture You cannot isolate it like you seemingly want to do here?

otherwise, scripture would make no sense and some verses would seemingly cancel out others

Muslims and Cults read the Bible in verse isolation.