ad hominem argument

[Dale-c]

There you go Dale laying it all in my lap when you never stop. That is the problem you think when someone else says something it is wrong but you never see how you are always spitting venom.
If its going to stop it has to be a 2 way street.

I do not mean to "spit venom" sometimes my words may look angrier than I intend.
For that I apologize. I am merely trying to stay on point and not on rabbit trails.

Now if you are going to keep quoting the 5 point institutes then John Calvin is a natural part of it. I don't see if Calvin is not Calvinist then why does it bother you and rippon and others when John Calvin is attacked.

umm. Bob, when have I quoted any of the "5 points"?
I understand that they spell "TULIP" but I can't even remember what they all stand for.
I DON"T even KNOW the five point by heart.
I have read them but I do not even remember them.
But at any rate, there you go again, attacking me, and we have not gotten anywhere.

So, let's do this nicely.
Whatever the T in the TULIP stands for, please explain why it is so evil.

Not why Calvin is evil. Just why that doctrine, the T, what is evil about that.

Thanks.

 

[saturneptune]

Congratulations Mr. JArthur,

It seems to me that if you wanted to accomplish the very essence of the subject of your op, that you would avoid titles such as this that you know very well is going to attract the Calvinist free will debate, and that you know very well this subject inspires the very attack you are trying to avoid. Sounds kind of self defeating to me.

 

[Brother Bob]

Thank you Saturneptune, it has been a nasty one and I am out of this one.

I can't say the T word on here Dale

 

[Rippon]

Calvin did not write "5-point Institutes ." Calvin never said that sick baby line which has been perpetuated by non-Cals since the 18th ( not 16th ) century . Stick to facts and not blatant falsehoods . No matter how often a lie is repeated -- it is still a lie . If you tell the truth you will gain our careful attention . Don't try to advance your cause by any means you deem acceptable . Aim higher .

 

[canadyjd]

T= total depravity of man: meaning man's complete inability to secure salvation on his own, without the help of God.

U= unconditional election: meaning that God chose some (the elect) for salvation according to His mercy, compassion, and will; and they had no merit of their own by which God selected them.

L= limited atonement: meaning that Christ's death on the cross made atonement for the sins of the elect alone, and not for any other sinner.

I= irresistable grace: (also called "effectual calling") meaning the work of Holy Spirit in calling the elect to salvation is effective 100% of the time that He does it. Every person that is called repents and believes unto salvation.

P= perseverence of the saints: Those who receive salvation are kept from loosing that salvation by Holy Spirit who indwells them.

That's the best I can do from memory

peace to youraise:

 

[Brother Bob]

The institutes include more than the 5 point, they include Calvin's sermons and I posted parts of them. So looks like you will just have to live with it. I didn't write the institues but they include Calvin's sermons and he did write the institutes. Now if the Institues lie I don't know about that. I guess there were liars then same as today but one thing for sure which is the truth, Calvin was a very very mean person.

I just posted what has been around since just after Calvin died. It is what you been using all these years and if its not the truth then you should of left them long ago instead of hanging on to someone like Calvin. He was the head in Geneva and there were many burned at the stake in 3 years he was in charge.

Truth will stand when the world is on fire and not those stakes that people were hanging on. Get over it!!!

 

[Dale-c]

I can't say the T word on here Dale

Why not? The word is not evil is it?

You keep attacking our doctrine but refuse to deal with it.

T= total depravity of man: meaning man's complete inability to secure salvation on his own, without the help of God.

Ahh, someone else said it so you don't have to.
Now, what is evil about that doctrine?

 

[Dale-c]

Calvin was a very very mean person.

There you go again. I don't care that Calvin was a mean person.
please deal with doctrine.
Stop attacking the person.

 

[Brother Bob]

There you go again saying that Calvin don't matter but protecting him like you were his mother. lol

 

[Dale-c]

There you go again saying that Calvin don't matter but protecting him like you were his mother. lol

bob you have utterly proved the point of the opening post. You refuse to deal with doctrine.
I don't really care about Calvin. Do you understand that?

Calvin was not perfect. I do not know just how bad he was or how good.
I have not studied him.

You are refusing to answer any doctrinal questions.

One more time, please, pick one of the 5 points and show from the Bible where they are wrong.

Start with the T if you wish. Please deal with doctrine.

 

[Brother Bob]

The T is Calvins

 

[Brother Bob]

Can't find it in the Bible have to go to Calvin's Institutes to know what it is and we decided not to go there remember.

 

[Dale-c]

There you go avoiding the question again.

Let me ask you this, do you believe the natural man is somewhat good?
Or is he totally wihtout merit of his own?

Ok, no systematic theology at all.
Please answer that.

 

[Jarthur001]

Congratulations Mr. JArthur,

It seems to me that if you wanted to accomplish the very essence of the subject of your op, that you would avoid titles such as this that you know very well is going to attract the Calvinist free will debate, and that you know very well this subject inspires the very attack you are trying to avoid. Sounds kind of self defeating to me.

Hi Saturn...

1st..thank you.

Its only self defeating, if I did not accomplish my goal. Am I right?

All roads are not staight paths. At times one must take the backroads to travel, but can still end up at home.


In Christ...James

BTW..this is my last post on this tread.

Peace Bob...

 

[Brother Bob]

Start a fire and run, figures

So your goal was to tear up the board huh. Well you did that hope you have a good night.
Think about that, his goal was to start trouble and he admitted it. Well it takes all kind.
Typical though.

 

[Dale-c]

No, his point was to prove that you would use ad hominem arguments rather than dealing with the issue which you have so splendidly proven!

You really couldn't have done a much better job of shooting the messenger because you didn't like the message.

You refuse to deal with doctrine, you keep bringing up the life of John Calvin.
Exactly as he said you would.
And now you are still doing it....see?

 

[Brother Bob]

Are you the little boy who follows after the master.:laugh: :laugh: :applause:

His point was to start trouble and he sure accomplished that and it is plain for all to see. He has a problem. He is too full of himself. And I didn't say you told false.

 

[Bible-boy]

Gentlemen,

Please, debate the issues and do not personally attack each other for holding opposing views. If you want to discuss what constitutes an ad hominem argument please feel free to do so. If you wish to debate doctrinal issues please feel free to do so. However, this nonsense of taking personal pot shots at one another (or at long since dead theologians) must stop or I'll close the thread. While I am at it let me remind each of you that the BB Posting Rules require that you all show grace to one another and that personal attacks will not be tolerated. I hope this warning is clear enough for each of you.

Yours in Christ,

Bible-boy,
Forum Moderator

 

[Dale-c]

Bob, I will be happy to continue to discuss this. Are you interested in discussion of doctrine?

As I have stated before, I am not a "Calvin follower"
However, I do believe in the doctrine of predestination.

If you would be so kind, please show me what that word means in the Bible and why it does NOT mean that God has predestined some to salvation and not others.

Today is a new day,

Thanks

 

[npetreley]

Yet another example of ad-hominem:

Are you the little boy who follows after the master.:laugh: :laugh: :applause:

His point was to start trouble and he sure accomplished that and it is plain for all to see. He has a problem. He is too full of himself. And I didn't say you told false.