Adoption - Am I missing something

[JesusFan]

Apparently you failed to include my belief on adoption in my quote. I currently believe that, at the moment of Justification, we receive the new birth and are promised the adoption at the resurrection. Therefore, there is a time difference between the new birth and the adoption - you responded to my statement as though the time difference was not there. In addition, for those who believe that the new birth and the adoption occur within the same split-millisecond, there is a logical (not chronological) progression in what occurs. In this order of salvation, The new birth must precede the adoption and, therefore, your being a child of God at the new birth, prior to the adoption, in the order of salvation is something that I would say is required.

Being born again involves being then justified, sealed by the promised Holy Spirit at same time as conversion, and so we are indeed right then passed unto Kingdom of Lord Jesus and as such, now partakers of the new nature and now adopted into family of God

 

[COrick]

I have downloaded a copy of all 4 volumes of his work and will read, at the least, the relevant portions.


(1) - absolutely
(4)- the problem I have with this statement is that he Pre-assumes that any child-ship or sonship is due to the adoption, and does not apparently see any relationship granted by the new birth (making us a bastard child of God [I reject the prior statement, however, it seems to be required by his position] that is then adopted). He then states that, since these passages refer to us as children / sons, that the only way we can have that relationship is by the adoption - this is a logical fallacy.
(2) - you have seen my response to both Rom. 8:15 and Gal 4:5; therefore, I will go to "They lay in their Blood ..." - My problem would be that I have never seen adoption cause the child to live - that must happen by the new birth and the passage seems to describe a birth. I wholeheartedly agree that it is all of grace.

In his list in the next section, I would make it the following regeneration / new birth, the adoption of children and justification

Please note - these responses are only to the section of his writing that is quoted - and they are only my initial reactions - I intend to read and pray over what he wrote and then respond again - perhaps in more detail.

After a first reading of the relevant portion of A Christian's reasonable service

It would seem that he holds to two (2) separate adoptions.

The manner in which believers are children of God is by way of adoption as children. Occasionally this is understood to refer to the glory of the revelation of the children of God after this life. “... waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body” (Rom 8:23). John has this in view in 1 John 3:2, “Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like Him.” The word “now” does not imply a contrast with the Old Testament, for believers were children of God then as well as in the New Testament. Rather, the word “now” is a reference to the future glory of which they will become partakers when Christ will be revealed in the day of judgment. We are here not referring to this adoption, but to adoption as children in this life.

I waited for him to address the other one, but I never noticed him doing so. I would have a problem accepting 2 different times at which God adopted me without solid scriptural evidence, as I do not see this as being a standard practice in the historical context of Biblical time Roman adoption and law.

Pg 419
(1) - He states that we are children of God by regeneration (I would understand the new birth)
(2) - He states that they are children of God by adoption - analysis to follow
a. Eph 1:5 - part of a list of things encouraging believers to praise God because of their current state (to place it in context) and states that they are predestinated unto the adoption - therefore their current state is not adopted in this verse.
b. Rom 8:15 - He conflates the Spirit of adoption with the adoption - if I am wrong, please diagram the sentence and show me where, as this is the verse that started me on this path about 2 years ago.
c. Gal 4:5 - He conflates our being made eligible to receive the adoption with our actually receiving the adoption - "that we might receive" - as is even more clear from the mood of the word in the Greek
d. Exek 16:6 - He uses a description of a birth as a proof text for the adoption and apparently equates living with adoption - he seems to reverse this order in his synopsis

Then in his synopsis of this section on page 420 he seems to say that God adopted me as His child while I was dead and then gave me new birth - did I understand him correctly?
I agree with him 100% in his statement that what God has done should cause us to rejoice and give Him all the honor and glory; whether he is correct or I am.

The rest being about the benefits that we have or how we should behave as children etc., I do not address it here as these are not the questions at hand.

 

[COrick]

Being born again involves being then justified, sealed by the promised Holy Spirit at same time as conversion, and so we are indeed right then passed unto Kingdom of Lord Jesus and as such, now partakers of the new nature and now adopted into family of God

then please address the logical issue in the order of salvation as presented above.

 

[COrick]

I don't know what you mean by "true to the Stephens 1550".
Lexicons are language dictionaries.
They are not particular to any version.
Thayer's Lexicon is popular, despite its significant shortcomings simply because it is off copyright.

While lexicons are specific to the language and not to the text, Biblical lexicon often include scripture references to show you the difference in how a word is used in one place vs another place. As I do not accept the Westcott Hort text and am concerned about subsequent texts, and admit my small amount of knowledge in the original languages, I am trying to avoid the lexicon I use causing me to understand that a Greek word is this in such and such passage, when that is really from a text I do not accept as authoritative. Why this is true is a subject for a different thread.

 

[37818]

Greek translated adoption.
Means a son to be placed as a son.

υἱοθεσία from υἱός + τίθημι

 

[JesusFan]

then please address the logical issue in the order of salvation as presented above.

Regerated unto salvation, to being born again, and at same time, are sealed by the Spirit and adopted as a son or daughter

 

[COrick]

Regerated unto salvation, to being born again, and at same time, are sealed by the Spirit and adopted as a son or daughter

So, are you saying that you are not related to the family of God until you are adopted even though you already have the new birth?

If that is what you are saying, then I understand you to be saying that I was a bastard at the new birth until I was adopted, and since God was the Father of my new birth - me being a bastard would require God to be either a fornicator or an adulterer. God Forbid! I would understand Hebrews 12:8 to teach that if I am a bastard, I am not really saved. (in Heb 12:8, who is the father of the bastard is not addressed)

Or are you saying something else?

 

[Deacon]

While lexicons are specific to the language and not to the text, Biblical lexicon often include scripture references to show you the difference in how a word is used in one place vs another place. As I do not accept the Westcott Hort text and am concerned about subsequent texts, and admit my small amount of knowledge in the original languages, I am trying to avoid the lexicon I use causing me to understand that a Greek word is this in such and such passage, when that is really from a text I do not accept as authoritative. Why this is true is a subject for a different thread.

Just as 'Byzantine' variants are found in 'Alexandrian' texts, Alexandrian variants can be found in the textus receptus. You really cannot hide from modern textual criticism.

This may disappoint you but Thayer's was published in 1889, after the publication of the Westcott and Hort Greek New Testament.
In Thayer's lexicon you'll frequently see the abbreviations "L T Tr and WH," referring to various critical editions (editions departing from the textus receptus) of the Greek New Testament (Lachmann 1831, Tischendorf 1849, Tregelles 1857, and Westcott and Hort 1881).

The Nestle Greek New Testament (1889) was precursor of the Modern Nestle-Aland Critical Text, (now in it's 28th edition), and was developed to coalesce the growing multitude of textus recepti and critical texts.

Rob

 

[COrick]

Just as 'Byzantine' variants are found in 'Alexandrian' texts, Alexandrian variants can be found in the textus receptus. You really cannot hide from modern textual criticism.

This may disappoint you but Thayer's was published in 1889, after the publication of the Westcott and Hort Greek New Testament.
In Thayer's lexicon you'll frequently see the abbreviations "L T Tr and WH," referring to various critical editions (editions departing from the textus receptus) of the Greek New Testament (Lachmann 1831, Tischendorf 1849, Tregelles 1857, and Westcott and Hort 1881).

The Nestle Greek New Testament (1889) was precursor of the Modern Nestle-Aland Critical Text, (now in it's 28th edition), and was developed to coalesce the growing multitude of textus recepti and critical texts.

Rob

Yes, however, since it is linked to the Strong's numbers, I am able to reference it from the KJV to the TR to the lexicon. Without that benefit, it would become much more difficult.

However, you have not yet made your suggestion

 

[Alan Dale Gross]

I agree that we have been promised adoption and that we have received the "Spirit of adoption" as the guarantee of the adoption to come

Some real nice practical thoughts from J.I. Packard on adoption to consider daily as a meditation.

"Do I, as a Christian, understand myself? Do I know my own real identity? My own real Destiny?
I am a child of God. God is my Father; Heaven is my home; every day is one day nearer.
My Savior is my Brother; every Christian is my brother too.

"Say it over and over to yourself first thing in the morning, last thing at night,
as you wait for the bus, any time when your mind is Free,
and ask that you may be enabled to live as one who knows it is all utterly and completely True.

"Because this is the Christian’s Secret of—a Happy Life?—
yes, certainly, but we have something both higher and profounder to say.

"This is the Christian’s secret of a Christian life, and of a God-Honoring life,
and these are the aspects of the situation that really matter.
May this secret become fully yours, and fully mine.
To help us realize more adequately who and what, as children of God, we are and are called to be,
here are some questions by which we do well to examine ourselves again and again.

"Do I understand my Adoption? Do I value it? Do I daily remind myself of my privilege as a child of God?

"Have I sought full Assurance of my Adoption? Do I daily dwell on the Love of God to me?

"Do I treat God as my Father in Heaven, loving, honoring and obeying Him, seeking and welcoming His fellowship,
and trying in everything to please Him, as a human parent would want his child to do?

"Do I think of Jesus Christ, my Savior and my Lord, as my Brother too,
bearing to me not only a Divine Authority but also a Divine-human sympathy?

"Do I think daily how close He is to me, how completely He understands me, and how much,
as my Kinsman-Redeemer, He cares for me?

"Have I learned to hate the things that displease my Father?
Am I sensitive to the evil things to which He is sensitive?
Do I make a point of avoiding them, lest I grieve Him?

"Do I look forward daily to that great family occasion when the children of God
will finally gather in Heaven before the Throne of God, their Father, and of the Lamb, their Brother and their Lord?
Have I felt the thrill of this Hope?

"Do I love my Christian brothers and sisters with whom I live day by day,
in a way that I shall not be ashamed of when in Heaven I think back over it?

"Am I proud of my Father, and of His family, to which by His Grace I belong?
Does the family likeness appear in me? If not, why not?

"God humble us; God instruct us; God make us His Own true children."

—Knowing God, pp. 258-260

 

[COrick]

Some real nice practical thoughts from J.I. Packard on adoption to consider daily as a meditation.

"Do I, as a Christian, understand myself? Do I know my own real identity? My own real Destiny?
I am a child of God. God is my Father; Heaven is my home; every day is one day nearer.
My Savior is my Brother; every Christian is my brother too.

"Say it over and over to yourself first thing in the morning, last thing at night,
as you wait for the bus, any time when your mind is Free,
and ask that you may be enabled to live as one who knows it is all utterly and completely True.

"Because this is the Christian’s Secret of—a Happy Life?—
yes, certainly, but we have something both higher and profounder to say.

"This is the Christian’s secret of a Christian life, and of a God-Honoring life,
and these are the aspects of the situation that really matter.
May this secret become fully yours, and fully mine.
To help us realize more adequately who and what, as children of God, we are and are called to be,
here are some questions by which we do well to examine ourselves again and again.

"Do I understand my Adoption? Do I value it? Do I daily remind myself of my privilege as a child of God?

"Have I sought full Assurance of my Adoption? Do I daily dwell on the Love of God to me?

"Do I treat God as my Father in Heaven, loving, honoring and obeying Him, seeking and welcoming His fellowship,
and trying in everything to please Him, as a human parent would want his child to do?

"Do I think of Jesus Christ, my Savior and my Lord, as my Brother too,
bearing to me not only a Divine Authority but also a Divine-human sympathy?

"Do I think daily how close He is to me, how completely He understands me, and how much,
as my Kinsman-Redeemer, He cares for me?

"Have I learned to hate the things that displease my Father?
Am I sensitive to the evil things to which He is sensitive?
Do I make a point of avoiding them, lest I grieve Him?

"Do I look forward daily to that great family occasion when the children of God
will finally gather in Heaven before the Throne of God, their Father, and of the Lamb, their Brother and their Lord?
Have I felt the thrill of this Hope?

"Do I love my Christian brothers and sisters with whom I live day by day,
in a way that I shall not be ashamed of when in Heaven I think back over it?

"Am I proud of my Father, and of His family, to which by His Grace I belong?
Does the family likeness appear in me? If not, why not?

"God humble us; God instruct us; God make us His Own true children."

—Knowing God, pp. 258-260

So, this is my concern about JI Packer's position

Knowing God Chapter 19 4th paragraph

Sonship to God, then, is a gift of grace. It is not a natural but an adoptive sonship, and so the New Testament explicitly pictures it. In Roman law, it was a recognized practice for an adult who wanted an heir, and someone to carry on the family name, to adopt a male as his son—usually at age, rather than in infancy, as is the common way today.

In my opinion, he crosses over one of the rules of the statement "Context is King". The rule he crosses over is that we apply the historical context rather than the modern context to the statement. So, while the issue of adoption is important to me, I do consider it to be in the category of secondary issues; but, I consider "Context is King" to be in the category of primary issues.

I would say that JI Packer contravenes the primary issue of "Context is King" in order to hold his position on the secondary issue of adoption. This is even though I would generally greatly respect the man and his teachings.

This is in addition to the Scriptural issues I have already mentioned.