Alcohol

[HAMel]

It is hard for me to believe it was the Holy Spirit that whispered in your ear that day to go buy a pint of whiskey, knowing you were a recovering alcoholic. Try buttermilk the next time, it works.

A RECOVERING ALCOHOLIC???

You gotta be kidding!! In my wild days I never had a problem with alcohol. Was never addicted to it in any manner, shape or form. I just found myself liquored up on occasion especially while in the military.

Alcoholic? Never. Never implied I was.

 

[InTheLight]

For those who think no alcohol should be consumed, where is your scriptural references? When Jesus turned water into wine, do you think it was grape juice?

Zaac never answers direct questions so I'll answer it for you. No, it was not grape juice. If it were only grape juice Titus 1:7, 1 Tim. 3:3, and 1 Tim 3:8 would not be in the Bible. Why should a church leader and/or deacons be admonished to "not be given to much wine" if it didn't contain alcohol?

If it were only grape juice the guests at the wedding of Cana could not be "well drunk".

So wine in the Bible contains alcohol in varying amounts, but typically less alcohol than we have in wine nowadays.

 

[salzer mtn]

This is what i've learned so far since i joined this board. It's perfectly ok to dress as you please, and less is better if you go for comfort. It's ok to play and sing rock & roll music, it's ok to drink alcohol because we cannot find scripture to keep us from it. So what i visualize is some one coming down the road with guitar in hand, going to witness to a lost person, playing rock & roll music, dressed in next to nothing, and stopping ever so often just to take a swig out of his pint of whiskey. LOL

 

[Zaac]

Why do you think the enemies of Jesus accused him of being a drunkard, among other things? Was it because he only drank water?

Scripture doesn't say what He came drinking. However, being the sinless God that He is, He wouldn't have done anything that would have caused another to stumble. That alone says to me that Jesus probably wouldn't have drunk anything alcoholic then anymore than Christians should drink alcohol today, and for the same reason: it would give the appearance that He got drunk.

And as Scripture says that wine is not for Kings, Proverbs 31:4. SO why would the King of Kings drink that which HIS word say is not for Kings?

God does not author confusion.

 

[webdog]

This is what i've learned so far since i joined this board. It's perfectly ok to dress as you please, and less is better if you go for comfort

Source for this outlandish claim?

It's ok to play and sing rock & roll music,

Music in itself is moral? Bible for that?

it's ok to drink alcohol because we cannot find scripture to keep us from it.

The silliest thing Ive read on this thread. Its ok because God says its ok, what He says is not ok is to get drunk. Is Deuteronomy 14:26 not in your Bible?

So what i visualize is some one coming down the road with guitar in hand, going to witness to a lost person, playing rock & roll music, dressed in next to nothing, and stopping ever so often just to take a swig out of his pint of whiskey. LOL

That's usually what the legalist visualizes.

 

[InTheLight]

<snip> it's ok to drink alcohol because we cannot find scripture to keep us from it.

Exactly right!

1 Tim 3:8 Likewise deacons must be reverent, not double-tongued, not given to much wine,

 

[webdog]

Scripture doesn't say what He came drinking. However, being the sinless God that He is, He wouldn't have done anything that would have caused another to stumble.

Are you serious?! His entire ministry was designed to make them stumble.

That alone says to me that Jesus probably wouldn't have drunk anything alcoholic then anymore than Christians should drink alcohol today, and for the same reason: it would give the appearance that He got drunk.

Start at false presuppositions and you arrive at false conclusions.

And as Scripture says that wine is not for Kings, Proverbs 31:4. SO why would the King of Kings drink that which HIS word say is not for Kings?

God does not author confusion.

Of course He doesn't, and He also doesn't author legalism and ripping Scripture from context.

 

[Zaac]

22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 1 Thess. 5:22

I just don't see how a Christian would get past the appearance of being one who gets drunk?[/QUO

What about when Jesus turned the water into wine? We know that was not a sin.

If I'm not mistaken, the best "wine" was the freshly squeezed "wine", and not aged, fermented "wine".

It's like orange juice. Freshly squeezed, it's really good. Let it sit out for a few days and the sugars start to ferment, and it tastes nasty.

Jesus does not present in His word all these reasons for why folks should not get drunk and then present them with alcoholic drink upon which to get drunk. That would make Him into a liar and author confusion about His word and Who He is.

And thus, looking at the whole of Scripture, it would be impossible for Jesus to have produced alcoholic "wine".

 

[salzer mtn]

Source for this outlandish claim?

Go to the locked thread about how people should dress.

 

[Zaac]

Are you serious?! His entire ministry was designed to make them stumble.

Yes I'm serious. Generally when the people of God speak of stumbling, it is reference to something someone else did causing another to SIN. Jesus has not caused anyone to sin.

Start at false presuppositions and you arrive at false conclusions.

Now heed your own warning.

Of course He doesn't, and He also doesn't author legalism and ripping Scripture from context.

That's why the context shows He didn't drink alcoholic wine or produce alcoholic wine.:thumbsup: Glad we're in agreement.

 

[12strings]

This is what i've learned so far since i joined this board. It's perfectly ok to dress as you please, and less is better if you go for comfort.

I doubt you can substantiate this with a quote from another poster...What was said in the thread on dress was that modesty IS the biblical mandate...and that a pair of pants is more modest than a mini-skirt.

It's ok to play and sing rock & roll music,

God says sing new songs, he says play loud cymbals, he doesn't forbid any kind of music anywhere. So yes.

it's ok to drink alcohol because we cannot find scripture to keep us
from it.

Not exactly...we don't forbid it absolutely because the bible doesn't forbid it absolutely....and in numerous places commends it, encourages it, and speaks of it as a blessing from God.


These arguments all sound the same as an argument not to use a computer, because the world uses computers, they can be addictive, they can lead us to sinful websites.

 

[Zaac]

This is what i've learned so far since i joined this board. It's perfectly ok to dress as you please, and less is better if you go for comfort. It's ok to play and sing rock & roll music, it's ok to drink alcohol because we cannot find scripture to keep us from it. So what i visualize is some one coming down the road with guitar in hand, going to witness to a lost person, playing rock & roll music, dressed in next to nothing, and stopping ever so often just to take a swig out of his pint of whiskey. LOL

Doesn't at all sound like those peculiar people the word says God's people are supposed to be.

Oddly enough, the lot on this board and in Christendom, tend to skew toward the very same activities that make them look just like a lost world.

 

[12strings]

also..."appearance of evil" most likely should be represented as "Form of evil" as in "kind of evil".

BECAUSE...it is impossible to avoid all appearance of evil...Jesus himself was accused of evil...If I pay for my prescriptions at the back of the drug store and then walk past the counter at the front without paying, it could appear as evil.

This verse definitely DOES NOT MEAN: "Avoid doing anything that anyone anywhere could possibly think looks like something that could be evil." (if that were the case, in my old church, I would have to only preach in a white shirt, not a blue shirt...seriously).

 

[webdog]

Yes I'm serious. Generally when the people of God speak of stumbling, it is reference to something someone else did causing another to SIN. Jesus has not caused anyone to sin.



Now heed your own warning.



That's why the context shows He didn't drink alcoholic wine or produce alcoholic wine.:thumbsup: Glad we're in agreement.

These .legalistic views make me stumble, now what? I bet Jesus was accused of being a drunk for drinking water...and He was the only Jew living to not partake of passover too, right?

 

[Zaac]

also..."appearance of evil" most likely should be represented as "Form of evil" as in "kind of evil".

BECAUSE...it is impossible to avoid all appearance of evil...Jesus himself was accused of evil...If I pay for my prescriptions at the back of the drug store and then walk past the counter at the front without paying, it could appear as evil.

This verse definitely DOES NOT MEAN: "Avoid doing anything that anyone anywhere could possibly think looks like something that could be evil." (if that were the case, in my old church, I would have to only preach in a white shirt, not a blue shirt...seriously).

In the context of what GOD says is evil, why would it not mean "avoid all appearance of evil"? And I'm specifically talking about giving the appearance that you're doing something that GOD says is sinful, not that which other folks think to be sinful.

 

[Zaac]

These .legalistic views make me stumble, now what?

Then take it up with Jesus. It's His legalistic word with which you seemingly have a problem.


One is left to wonder, why given all the ills and evils associated with alcohol consumption, why those who are supposed to be peculiar and set apart always seem to be looking for a way to justify doing that which makes them look just like that which is lost and perishing?

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Scripture doesn't say what He came drinking. However, being the sinless God that He is, He wouldn't have done anything that would have caused another to stumble. That alone says to me that Jesus probably wouldn't have drunk anything alcoholic then anymore than Christians should drink alcohol today, and for the same reason: it would give the appearance that He got drunk.

And as Scripture says that wine is not for Kings, Proverbs 31:4. SO why would the King of Kings drink that which HIS word say is not for Kings?

God does not author confusion.

Nor incongruent silliness.

 

[salzer mtn]

Mark 15:22-23 And they bring him unto the place Golgotha, which is, being interpretated, The place of the skull. And they gave him to drink wine mingled with myrrh: but he recieved it not.

 

[Zaac]

Nor incongruent silliness.

Call it what you will. But the only way to be right about what God says is to say what He says. And at no time in Scripture, no matter how much bibbers want to make it so, does God's word ever say that Jesus drank wine.

Anytime confusion is authored, it's because men choose to insert their opinions instead of going with what Scripture says.

 

[12strings]

Mark 15:22-23 And they bring him unto the place Golgotha, which is, being interpretated, The place of the skull. And they gave him to drink wine mingled with myrrh: but he recieved it not.

A jar full of sour wine stood there, so they put a sponge full of the sour wine on a hyssop branch and held it to his mouth. 30 When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, “It is finished,” and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit. (John 19:24)

Confusing, isn't it?