Alcohol

[12strings]

In the context of what GOD says is evil, why would it not mean "avoid all appearance of evil"? And I'm specifically talking about giving the appearance that you're doing something that GOD says is sinful, not that which other folks think to be sinful.

Great Point...God does not say that all drinking of wine or strong drink is evil...so we can't either.

Deuteronomy 14:26 - and spend the money for whatever you desire—oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And you shall eat there before the Lord your God and rejoice, you and your household.

Proverbs 31:6 - Give strong drink to the one who is perishing, and wine to those in bitter distress;

Luke 7:33 For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon.’ 34 The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Look at him! A glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’

(context here is obviously drinking wine...not just drinking liquids)

 

[Bronconagurski]

If one drink makes you drunk, then don't drink. The scripture would say not to drink at all, like for a Nazarite, instead of don't get drunk, if it is sin to drink in moderation. But my advice to the legalists on this board is to find a cave and hermatize themself, like Ernest T. Bass, because they only see what they believe you can't do, not the freedom we have in Christ. Everyone else is sinning but them, everyone is wordly but them, no one but them has any understanding of the scriptures. No matter the scriptures do not forbid certain things, they were taught that way and there is no way under heaven THEY could be wrong. Nope, it's only my four and no more.

 

[Old Union Brother]

I've been down this road before so I leave you with two verses:

(1Co 6:12) All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
(1Co 10:23) All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

 

[InTheLight]

Great Point...God does not say that all drinking of wine or strong drink is evil...so we can't either.

Deuteronomy 14:26 - and spend the money for whatever you desire—oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And you shall eat there before the Lord your God and rejoice, you and your household.

Proverbs 31:6 - Give strong drink to the one who is perishing, and wine to those in bitter distress;

Luke 7:33 For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon.’ 34 The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Look at him! A glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’

(context here is obviously drinking wine...not just drinking liquids)

7 The accompanying drink offering is to be a quarter of a hin of fermented drink with each lamb. Pour out the drink offering to the Lord at the sanctuary.
8 Prepare the second lamb at twilight, along with the same kind of grain offering and drink offering that you prepare in the morning. This is an offering made by fire, an aroma pleasing to the Lord. Numbers 28:7-8

 

[webdog]

Then take it up with Jesus. It's His legalistic word with which you seemingly have a problem.


One is left to wonder, why given all the ills and evils associated with alcohol consumption, why those who are supposed to be peculiar and set apart always seem to be looking for a way to justify doing that which makes them look just like that which is lost and perishing?

I wouldn't be so quick to embrace your flawed understanding with Jesus'.

Keep holding onto your man made works tradition of being "set apart".

 

[Zaac]

Great Point...God does not say that all drinking of wine or strong drink is evil...so we can't either.

He doesn't say the drinking of wine(non-alcoholic) is evil. But getting drunk off alcoholic wine is evil according to Scripture. So how does one look to be avoiding evil by consuming that which leads to what Scripture says is evil?

Alcohol consumption seems to be such that if anyone sees you drink at all, they are gonna assume you get drunk at some point. SO why would a Christian want lost people thinking there is no difference in the type of behaviors in which they are involved?

Deuteronomy 14:26 - and spend the money for whatever you desire—oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And you shall eat there before the Lord your God and rejoice, you and your household.

Was talking to a young man about this verse just the other night. This is back again into Jewish cultural laws. The only way to use this to justify drinking alcoholic drinks is to also agree that you are to abstain from all the other things listed in the same Scripture.

Proverbs 31:6 - Give strong drink to the one who is perishing, and wine to those in bitter distress;

If I'm not mistaken, the restveratrol found in the skin of grapes and other berries reduces high blood pressure and regulates sugar levels, and that's why it was good for "ailments".

Luke 7:33 For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon.’ 34 The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Look at him! A glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’

(context here is obviously drinking wine...not just drinking liquids)

Drinking what kind of wine? The grape juice HE produced in Cana or alcoholic wine?

The context is perhaps that they thought He was consuming alcoholic wine. But Scripture never says that Christ drank alcoholic wine or wine at all.

 

[Zaac]

I wouldn't be so quick to embrace your flawed understanding with Jesus'.

You weren't asked to embrace anything so that point is moot.

Keep holding onto your man made works tradition of being "set apart".

Being set apart is an issue of holiness. So show where looking and doing the same things as those who are perishing are doing is Biblically perceived to be holy.

 

[convicted1]

I've been down this road before so I leave you with two verses:

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


Nine pages in a day.....someone said the over/under for 25 pages was monday......how about thursday?

 

[Iconoclast]

I've been down this road before so I leave you with two verses:

Yes...you have hit on the keys verses for sure, another pair to combine with these are from col 3
17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

23 And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;


and here:
16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:

17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.

19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.

20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.

21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

 

[convicted1]

Yes...you have hit on the keys verses for sure, another pair to combine with these are from col 3
17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

23 And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;


and here:
16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:

17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.

19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.

20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.

21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

Watch it Brother, I think I hear the sound of "toes crunching".......:laugh:

 

[annsni]

22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 1 Thess. 5:22

I just don't see how a Christian would get past the appearance of being one who gets drunk?

Easy. Be like Jesus and don't get drunk. Remember He was accused as well.

 

[webdog]

You weren't asked to embrace anything so that point is moot.

Those with reading comprehension would have known I was referring you you.

Being set apart is an issue of holiness. So show where looking and doing the same things as those who are perishing are doing is Biblically perceived to be holy.

Well, you acting like one of those Jesus condemned is the antithesis of acting holy.

 

[annsni]

If you buy alcohol, you are helping to keep liquor stores open that kills innocent victimes everyday in auto accidents on the streets. You are not part of the solution, but part of the problem.

When I buy a car, I keep the car dealers open that sell cars that kill innocent victims every day in auto accidents on the streets.

 

[annsni]

I said nothing about witnessing to them about alcohol. Ann i challange you or the other posters that agree with you to go out on the streets and witness to the lost and while doing so, carry around a can of beer and take pulls off of it. See if the lost will take you serious, they will either stare at you like your nuts, or make fun of you or cuss you out.

We have done it and led people to the Lord. *shrugging shoulders*

Well, not like you say. We've been around people, sharing a glass of wine and giving them the Gospel. I don't know the culture you live in but around here, people have a drink. It's common. So for us to sit with a glass of wine and speak of Biblical things doesn't make much of a difference. We could sit with a glass of wine or a glass of seltzer. Having the wine wouldn't make me any less "valid" as a Christian than if I said "Never! It's evil!!"

 

[Iconoclast]

Watch it Brother, I think I hear the sound of "toes crunching".......:laugh:

Far be it from me to post anything controversial Willis:laugh::laugh::wavey:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Lets not buy Hershey anymore....they kill thru giving people diabetes.:laugh:

 

[12strings]

Was talking to a young man about this verse just the other night. This is back again into Jewish cultural laws. The only way to use this to justify drinking alcoholic drinks is to also agree that you are to abstain from all the other things listed in the same Scripture.

The point is not that we are commaned to drink strong drink...but rather that God pointed to it as a blessing, something they could eat and drink "before the Lord and rejoice." It seems you are now saying that because we are no longer under the old testament law, not only are we allowed to eat pork...but we are FORBIDDEN to drink wine, and eat sheep & oxen.

THE MAIN POINT IS YOU ARE CALLING SOMETHING A SIN THAT GOD DOES NOT CALL A SIN. Something, in fact that God says can be used "before the Lord" and something we can "rejoice" in.

Drinking what kind of wine? The grape juice HE produced in Cana or alcoholic wine?

You don't know that what Jesus made was non-alchoholic grape juice...in fact you are changing the word from the biblical word "WINE." Whether it was alchoholic or not can only be deduced...it is not stated in scripture.

 

[salzer mtn]

The point is not that we are commaned to drink strong drink...but rather that God pointed to it as a blessing, something they could eat and drink "before the Lord and rejoice." It seems you are now saying that because we are no longer under the old testament law, not only are we allowed to eat pork...but we are FORBIDDEN to drink wine, and eat sheep & oxen.

THE MAIN POINT IS YOU ARE CALLING SOMETHING A SIN THAT GOD DOES NOT CALL A SIN. Something, in fact that God says can be used "before the Lord" and something we can "rejoice" in.

You keep repeating we can rejoice in the fact we drink wine. You must have a very shallow walk with the Lord to put drinking on the list as something to rejoice in.

 

[salzer mtn]

Actually, there WAS a time that I used to drink.

I notice you and the guy that bought the whiskey for his stomach admitted you both used to drink. Could this be the problem, you just don't won't to let go of the past ? And i think it was 12 Strings that likes to set around playing rock & roll music. Does bad habbits from the past have that much control over you ? Common now, you can tell Dr. Phil.

 

[InTheLight]

You don't know that what Jesus made was non-alchoholic grape juice...in fact you are changing the word from the biblical word "WINE." Whether it was alchoholic or not can only be deduced...it is not stated in scripture.

I beg to differ. The Bible says that the ruler of the feast said the usual tradition was to serve the good wine first, so that after the guests have "well drunk" [KJV] or "have become drunk" [NASB] they will then serve the inferior wine, "but you have saved the best for last."

People don't get "well drunk" on grape juice!