Alcohol

[Arbo]

It's just a controversial subject and everyone has their opinion and scriptures to, if you will, justify their stance on the matter. I can't help but think of different situations involving drinking and what impact, if any, drinking being involved makes.

Other examples include but not limited to:

You are having a drink at home and the pastor of your church knocks on the door, what do you do?

It's the evening of your daughter's first date, would you open the door to greet your daughter's date with a can of beer in your hand?

If your non-drinking parents are coming to stay for the weekend and they don't know you moderately partake, what becomes of the alcohol in your home?

If any of these situations would prompt a change in your behavior at that moment, what does that say if anything?

It may be that a change in behavior is because the individual does not want to unnecessarily offend or cause another to stumble.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

It may be that a change in behavior is because the individual does not want to unnecessarily offend or cause another to stumble.

Arent you better off just telling the guy to mind his own business & quit judging other people?!?

 

[Born Again]

It only tells me that you need to calm down about alcohol consumption in your neighbors homes. You appear obsessed with some really destructive types of behavior that will or will not happen irrespective of your meddling. So sit down, have some Postum & chill out.

Ummm.... these are hypothetical situations intended to promote discussion on both sides of the issue. But thanks for your umm concern?!.

 

[saturneptune]

It may be that a change in behavior is because the individual does not want to unnecessarily offend or cause another to stumble.

I think you bring out an excellent point. I have said this before, but the reasons I do not drink are not because the Bible teaches us to abstain, but for the following reasons.
1. When I drank in the Navy, it was not as a one glass of wine with dinner, so I have no business touching it. Having said that, I have no right to judge someone who can drink properly.
2. I think given number one, it was a bad example for my children.
3. My wife detests alcohol, and cannot stand to sit in a restaurant near the bar inside the partition, so I honor her wishes.
4. I feel the Holy Spirit is my guide in such matters, and if it bothers me to pop open a beer while teaching Sunday School, then there must be something about it that is wrong. If one is willing to drink, there should be no deception or hiding the fact.
5. Finally, I do not want to be any part of causing a weak brother (like me) to cause someone else to stumble or hurt their own conscience because of my actions.

The body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, and the way I drink, I doubt He would be amused.

Having said all that, those who preach abstinence because the Bible teaches such are full of crap. In an odd sort of way, I admire a strong Christian who can drink properly and do so without harming his fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. That is just not me.

 

[Born Again]

You're out knocking on doors for your church and a guy comes to the door with a beer in his hand and invites you in, says he was always curious about the Bible, and would like to speak with you, but only if you will have a beer with him. What do you do?

If he says that to a casual drinker I'd say "sure, thanks... this is great". If he said that to an abstainer I would kindly decline because that would be considered temptation.

 

[saturneptune]

If he says that to a casual drinker I'd say "sure, thanks... this is great". If he said that to an abstainer I would kindly decline because that would be considered temptation.

I would decline also because of all the reasons I stated above. If one cannot drink in that given situation, the obviously something inside him or her (the HS) is telling that person it is not the right thing to do. A person who hides the fact of social drinking is not being honest with himself, his fellow Christians, or the Lord.

 

[Born Again]

Well, let me ask you a few questions to go with this? Ask them openly to everyone please, not just directed at me.

Let's say you are BBQing a great steak and your vegetarian pastor came to the house? What would you do with your steak? Eat it, but offer something different for my vegetarian pastor

Your elderly neighbor rings the doorbell at an .... inopportune time as you are with your spouse. What would you do? Hopefully get to the door in time.

If you are laughing it up and having a nice time with some friends and you get a phone call that another friend of yours was just killed in a car accident, how would you change what you are doing? It would probably be difficult to laugh after that and would explain why.

You are sitting down and praying hard for the needs of the neighborhood people around you and your neighbor comes to the door to speak to you about an argument he had with his wife, would you stop praying? I would stop, take the opportunity to listen to my neighbor's concerns, then resume at an opportune time.

If these situations would prompt a change in your behavior at that moment, what does that say, if anything?

That I'm considerate although I wouldn't ditch my steak?

 

[Monster]

It's just a controversial subject and everyone has their opinion and scriptures to, if you will, justify their stance on the matter. I can't help but think of different situations involving drinking and what impact, if any, drinking being involved makes.

Other examples include but not limited to:

You are having a drink at home and the pastor of your church knocks on the door, what do you do?

It's the evening of your daughter's first date, would you open the door to greet your daughter's date with a can of beer in your hand?

If your non-drinking parents are coming to stay for the weekend and they don't know you moderately partake, what becomes of the alcohol in your home?

If any of these situations would prompt a change in your behavior at that moment, what does that say if anything?

- It certainly is controversial and I'll be clear, I love (read loved) booze as much as I despise it. I loved it far too much and therefore haven't had a "drank-drink-drunk" in over 21 years (THANKS GOD! And thanks to my wife who took a stand against it in my life before she would be my wife). I hate it because I grew up in and then emulated the damnation it can create in the lives of those that play white-russian-roulette with it. I wish no one would drink it, ever. I condemn no for drinking it not to excess, ever. I'd love for there to be an eleventieth-commandment stating something like "Thou shalt not touch anything fermented, not even if it's just a little bit" but there isn't. Scripture leaves the choice up to the individual, and therefore the doom and gloom consequences or the casual enjoyment and pleasure results.

The examples, point by point;

- If that ever did happen, I would as likely hid it in guilt rather than face the judgmental wrath of god's right hand of judgmental-judgement. It didn't however happen, never-ever. In my experience the care and concern the pastors of my youth showed towards me and mine generally extended about as far as the church owned properties and my outward appearance while in the "sanctuary" or on the aforementioned.

- If I had a daughter she wouldn't date until she was 45. And no, I would not have answered the door with one in my hand. Seriously, I was a greedy drinker and would've been afraid that he (he? who knows nowadays?) would ask for one. ALL MINE! I'm only being slightly flippant here, that was my mind at work as a drinker, it was only about the booze. <--- I am/is/was/will-be the weaker brother, it's in the double helix.

- I grew up in a horrible, alcohol-fueled nightmare of a home until I was about twelve. One 'rent drank and railed, the other 'rent ranted and railed. There was an amazing change in the drinker, a bit of a change in the ranter, Christ was at the center. So, I can't really address this one subjectively aside from saying if I had an offspring and I was the arriving parent, I'd be disappointed, assuming they were aware of the "inheritance" passed thru the genes. But, none of us really know what a hammer can do until we smash our own thumb with it, do we?

- For me, drinking is sin, period. There's no way for me to equivocate otherwise. There's no way for me to truly know the condition and position of those that might see me drinking or might even know that I drink. With that in mind I'm very happy to not drink (ignoring my alcoholism) and avoid even the slightest possibility of making/accommodating/validating/enabling/put-your-own-'ing' here, another to stumble. And then with that in mind, that's my "law" for me and how I understand God's word to apply to my life. I'm happy to allow God's sufficiency to work in others the way He sees fit in this specific conundrum of an issue.

OR concisely put by Old Union Brother;

I've been down this road before so I leave you with two verses:

Quote:
(1Co 6:12) All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
(1Co 10:23) All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

But, I'm really bad at concise.

 

[Arbo]

Arent you better off just telling the guy to mind his own business & quit judging other people?!?

I reserve my rudeness for telemarketers.

 

[saturneptune]

I reserve my rudeness for telemarketers.

I will add JWs and Mormons that ring the door bell.

 

[annsni]

I just thought of a better answer for this one:

It's the evening of your daughter's first date, would you open the door to greet your daughter's date with a can of beer in your hand?

If you're holding the rifle in one hand and a beer in the other, just how would you open the door? Of course you're going to put the beer down! :laugh:

 

[Born Again]

I just thought of a better answer for this one:



If you're holding the rifle in one hand and a beer in the other, just how would you open the door? Of course you're going to put the beer down! :laugh:

Then hand him the questionnaire that's in your back pocket.

 

[Arbo]

I just thought of a better answer for this one:



If you're holding the rifle in one hand and a beer in the other, just how would you open the door? Of course you're going to put the beer down! :laugh:

I seem to remember one former pastor of mine saying that he'd be sure to clean his shotgun in full view when one of his daughters was being picked up by a suitor.:laugh:

 

[Arbo]

I will add JWs and Mormons that ring the door bell.

Or people who ignore the No Solicitation sign on the door...

 

[annsni]

I seem to remember one former pastor of mine saying that he'd be sure to clean his shotgun in full view when one of his daughters was being picked up by a suitor.:laugh:

Yep - We have a community shotgun at church for all of the pastors with daughters. We've used it twice so far....

 

[Bro. James]

Those who agree to the standard Baptist Church Covenant must deal with: "abstain from sale or use of alcohol as a beverage." This is pretty unambiguous.

Those not under this covenant must still deal with: if it causes your brother to stumble, it is sin. There are many stumbling with alcohol. Many are in denial.

Alcohol has caused more misery than joy. We are better off leaving it alone, especially if in a leadership position.

"Whatsoever is not of faith is sin" pretty much covers the gray areas. Then there is: "Abstain from all appearance of evil." One knows not who is watching.

Even so, come Lord Jesus.

Bro. James

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Yep - We have a community shotgun at church for all of the pastors with daughters. We've used it twice so far....

:laugh: :laugh:

 

[salzer mtn]

Prov 23:20 Be not among winebibbers. Prov 4:14;17 Enter not into the path of the wicked, and go not in the way of evil men. Verse 17, For they eat the bread of wickedness, and drink the wine of violence. Prove 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. Prov 21:17 He that loveth pleasure shall be a poor man: He that loveth wine and oil shall not be rich. Prov 23:29-32 Who hath woe? Who hath sorrow? Who hath contentions? Who hath babblings? Who hath wounds without cause? Who hath redness of eyes? They that tarry long at the wine; they that go seek mixed wine. Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth its colour in the cup, when it moveth itself upright. At the last it biteth like a serpant and stingeth like a adder. Prov 31:4-5 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink: lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgement of any of the afflicted. Isa 5:11 Woe unto them that rise up early in the morning, that they may follow strong drink; that continue until night, till wine inflame them. Isa 5:22 Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink. Isa 24:9 They shall not drink wine with a song; strong drink shall be bitter to them that drink it. Isa 28:5-7 In that day shall the Lord of hosts be for a crown of glory, and for a diadem of beauty, unto the residue of his people, and for a spirit of judgement to him that sitteth in judgement, and for strength to them that turn the battle to the gate. But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way with strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgement. Hosea 4:11 Whoredom and wine and new wine take away the heart

 

[Baptist4life]

Prov 23:20 Be not among winebibbers. Prov 4:14;17 Enter not into the path of the wicked, and go not in the way of evil men. Verse 17, For they eat the bread of wickedness, and drink the wine of violence. Prove 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. Prov 21:17 He that loveth pleasure shall be a poor man: He that loveth wine and oil shall not be rich. Prov 23:29-32 Who hath woe? Who hath sorrow? Who hath contentions? Who hath babblings? Who hath wounds without cause? Who hath redness of eyes? They that tarry long at the wine; they that go seek mixed wine. Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth its colour in the cup, when it moveth itself upright. At the last it biteth like a serpant and stingeth like a adder. Prov 31:4-5 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink: lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgement of any of the afflicted. Isa 5:11 Woe unto them that rise up early in the morning, that they may follow strong drink; that continue until night, till wine inflame them. Isa 5:22 Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink. Isa 24:9 They shall not drink wine with a song; strong drink shall be bitter to them that drink it. Isa 28:5-7 In that day shall the Lord of hosts be for a crown of glory, and for a diadem of beauty, unto the residue of his people, and for a spirit of judgement to him that sitteth in judgement, and for strength to them that turn the battle to the gate. But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way with strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgement. Hosea 4:11 Whoredom and wine and new wine take away the heart

Clear Scriptural WARNINGS about alcohol. Sad to say, but someone will be along shortly to tell you "it all depends on how you interpret those verses", or something along those lines. Reading this whole thread amazes me how much people will come up with excuses for drinking. Alcohol is a PLAGUE on our society. Do you really think that every person who started drinking didn't think they could " handle it?". Do you know of anyone who started drinking with the INTENTION of becoming an alcoholic? Did that alcoholic person, who has lost his family, job, home, and everything else START out thinking they'd end up like that? Do you KNOW for a fact you can "handle it?" No you don't! Why play with fire? A Christian who likes to "have a drink every now and then" is playing in the world's pigpen with the hogs, IMHO.

 

[webdog]

Clear Scriptural WARNINGS about alcohol. Sad to say, but someone will be along shortly to tell you "it all depends on how you interpret those verses", or something along those lines. Reading this whole thread amazes me how much people will come up with excuses for drinking. Alcohol is a PLAGUE on our society. Do you really think that every person who started drinking didn't think they could " handle it?". Do you know of anyone who started drinking with the INTENTION of becoming an alcoholic? Did that alcoholic person, who has lost his family, job, home, and everything else START out thinking they'd end up like that? Do you KNOW for a fact you can "handle it?" No you don't! Why play with fire? A Christian who likes to "have a drink every now and then" is playing in the world's pigpen with the hogs, IMHO.

B4L, its called "context". Something you are ripping Scripture out of to support the manmade tradition that alcohol = evil regardless of what the Bible says.