All that the Father gives Me

[Van]

I see Martin is at it again, misrepresenting my view.
1) I referred to the opportunity for salvation, and Martin addresses his supposed content of faith.
2) Did I refer to taking an exam, or God crediting the person's faith as righteous faith or not?
3) Martin says taint so, but without any specifics.
4) Martin refers to Romans 9:33 but somehow does not grasp that the ones believing on Him are the ones God has credited with righteous faith.
5) Martin says individual election occurred in eternity, ignoring that individuals are given to Christ in the present.
6) Martin seems not to grasp it is God who baptizes individuals into Christ, thus overruling is an absurdity.
7) No verse says or suggests any individual is given to Christ before Christ was glorified on the cross. Full Stop!

 

[Van]

John 7:37-39 (NASB)
Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink.“The one who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, "From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.’” But this He said in reference to the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

 

[Van]

John 6:37 (NASB95)
“All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out."

The tense of Father gives Me is present, thus refers to an ongoing activity, not something completed before creation.

Will come to Me refers to a future arrival into Christ's spiritual body, so the action of the Father precedes entry into Christ.

The one coming (in the present tense) to Me refers to those who will arrive and enter

And these Christ will never cast out, thus once saved, always saved.

 

[Van]

If all our works of righteousness are as filthy rags to God, how could our faith merit anything? It could not.

So every time you see the false charge that our putting our faith in Christ as Savior and Lord is a works salvation because our faith somehow merits salvation, know that the claim is unbiblical nonsense. Romans 4:16 clearly teaches our faith is in accordance with grace, not works. It is God who turns our worthless "sows ear faith" into "a silk purse" of righteous faith.

 

[AustinC]

If all our works of righteousness are as filthy rags to God, how could our faith merit anything? It could not.

So every time you see the false charge that our putting our faith in Christ as Savior and Lord is a works salvation because our faith somehow merits salvation, know that the claim is unbiblical nonsense. Romans 4:16 clearly teaches our faith is in accordance with grace, not works. It is God who turns our worthless "sows ear faith" into "a silk purse" of righteous faith.

It's not " your" faith. If you are the one who generates it then it's not salvation by grace alone.

 

[Van]

It's not " your" faith. If you are the one who generates it then it's not salvation by grace alone.

Yet another completely absurd argument. If God turns worthless faith into righteous faith, that action is completely by grace.

And of course the faith that God credits or not is our faith. Here the obviously absurd argument is God would credit is own faith as righteous faith. Utter nonsense.

If all our works of righteousness are as filthy rags to God, how could our faith merit anything? It could not.

So every time you see the false charge that our putting our faith in Christ as Savior and Lord is a works salvation because our faith somehow merits salvation, know that the claim is unbiblical nonsense. Romans 4:16 clearly teaches our faith is in accordance with grace, not works. It is God who turns our worthless "sows ear faith" into "a silk purse" of righteous faith.

 

[AustinC]

Yet another completely absurd argument. If God turns worthless faith into righteous faith, that action is completely by grace.

And of course the faith that God credits or not is our faith. Here the obviously absurd argument is God would credit is own faith as righteous faith. Utter nonsense.

If all our works of righteousness are as filthy rags to God, how could our faith merit anything? It could not.

So every time you see the false charge that our putting our faith in Christ as Savior and Lord is a works salvation because our faith somehow merits salvation, know that the claim is unbiblical nonsense. Romans 4:16 clearly teaches our faith is in accordance with grace, not works. It is God who turns our worthless "sows ear faith" into "a silk purse" of righteous faith.

You still imagine it's your faith and therefore it could not be grace.
God makes the sinner alive with Christ when the sinner was dead in trespasses and sins.
God saves by grace and gives the saved person the faith to believe.
You are wrong, Van. You have been wrong for years.

 

[AVL1984]

You still imagine it's your faith and therefore it could not be grace.
God makes the sinner alive with Christ when the sinner was dead in trespasses and sins.
God saves by grace and gives the saved person the faith to believe.
You are wrong, Van. You have been wrong for years.

Is he wrong? Is it possible that you, a continuously bloviating poster is the one who's wrong?

Luke 7:50 50And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

 

[AustinC]

Is he wrong? Is it possible that you, a continuously bloviating poster is the one who's wrong?

Luke 7:50 50And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

Where did her faith come from?
It came from God who caused her to believe.

Our difference is that you focus on man in that verse and I focus on Jesus in that verse.
I also look at all scripture when understanding while you pick out a sentence without context to create your theology.
Once again, what will you do with "But God..."?

 

[Van]

You still imagine it's your faith and therefore it could not be grace.
God makes the sinner alive with Christ when the sinner was dead in trespasses and sins.
God saves by grace and gives the saved person the faith to believe.
You are wrong, Van. You have been wrong for years.

Once again scripture is ignored and false doctrine proclaimed. Faith is in accordance with grace. That is scripture. AustinC defies truth. Did anyone say God did not make the sinner alive with Christ? Nope so obfuscation on display. God saves by grace, when He alone credits worthless filthy rag faith as righteous faith.

AustinC says I am wrong, but I am the one quoting scripture.

 

[AustinC]

Once again scripture is ignored and false doctrine proclaimed. Faith is in accordance with grace. That is scripture. AustinC defies truth. Did anyone say God did not make the sinner alive with Christ? Nope so obfuscation on display. God saves by grace, when He alone credits worthless filthy rag faith as righteous faith.

AustinC says I am wrong, but I am the one quoting scripture.

You believe saved by grace alone is a false doctrine?
Faith is an effect of God causing us to be made alive. "But God..."
Notice Van is teaching that humans have faith before being made alive. He declared that before being made alive, the sinners faith is unrighteous faith and then after being made alive the sinners faith is declared righteous. Notice that Van refuses to acknowledge that faith is a gift of God, given to the Christian, by grace, at the Christians moment of salvation. Van is teaching that humans are born with faith. Just read what he wrote.
He then says I proclaim false doctrine and defy the truth when I state that God saves by grace alone and faith is the effect of God causing us to be made alive.
Notice that neither Van nor 37 will ever address or acknowledge the phrase "But God..."

 

[37818]

. . . saved by grace alone . . .

It is being saved by God's grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.

 

[AustinC]

It is being saved by God's grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.

Bravo.
God's grace saved through the faith gifted to the one God graciously saved, by the particular atonement Jesus died to save.

Give God the glory. It's all God's doing.

 

[Van]

You believe saved by grace alone is a false doctrine?
Faith is an effect of God causing us to be made alive. "But God..."
Notice Van is teaching that humans have faith before being made alive. He declared that before being made alive, the sinners faith is unrighteous faith and then after being made alive the sinners faith is declared righteous. Notice that Van refuses to acknowledge that faith is a gift of God, given to the Christian, by grace, at the Christians moment of salvation. Van is teaching that humans are born with faith. Just read what he wrote.
He then says I proclaim false doctrine and defy the truth when I state that God saves by grace alone and faith is the effect of God causing us to be made alive.
Notice that neither Van nor 37 will ever address or acknowledge the phrase "But God..."

Where are the truth protectors. Did I say saved by grace is false doctrine? Nope. Thus the false charge is a gratuitous insult, and unnecessary verbiage.
The Falsology advocate says saved through faith alone is false doctrine, as he falsely claims we are saved and given faith.
How could Jesus say, your faith has saved you, if that were true? (See Luke 7:50) He could not. Protect your bibles folks, they make God's word to no affect.

 

[AustinC]

Where are the truth protectors. Did I say saved by grace is false doctrine? Nope. Thus the false charge is a gratuitous insult, and unnecessary verbiage.
The Falsology advocate says saved through faith alone is false doctrine, as he falsely claims we are saved and given faith.
How could Jesus say, your faith has saved you, if that were true? (See Luke 7:50) He could not. Protect your bibles folks, they make God's word to no affect.

You are speaking around your accusation of my doctrine.
The Bible says we are saved by grace. It never says we are saved by faith. Instead it says saved by grace, through faith. This declares that God makes you alive by grace and gives you faith, by grace, and justifies you by gracious faith, and sanctifies you by grace and glorifies you by grace.
God causes you to be saved, to have faith and to believe what He has done for you.

You keep attributing faith to a human before God graciously makes that human alive with Christ, yet there is no faith before God graciously saves.

 

[AVL1984]

Where did her faith come from?
It came from God who caused her to believe.

Our difference is that you focus on man in that verse and I focus on Jesus in that verse.
I also look at all scripture when understanding while you pick out a sentence without context to create your theology.
Once again, what will you do with "But God..."?

Please, curb your Calvinistic tendency to try and make yourself better than you are by saying that I am focusing on man while you're focusing on Jesus..I'm using Christ's own words, and you're avoiding them. Everybody knows that faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God. Yes, this woman knew who Christ was....anyone who hears the preaching knows who Christ is...So, PROVE YOUR ASSERTION that I am focusing on man, or stop bloviating and apologize for your false accusation. To be honest, I don't expect you'll do that.

 

[AVL1984]

Bravo.
God's grace saved through the faith gifted to the one God graciously saved, by the particular atonement Jesus died to save.

Give God the glory. It's all God's doing.

And neither those who hold to your friend "Calvin" or those who hold to free will are denying that. 37818 has proven that. Guess it's just a matter of perspective on what that truly means.

 

[AustinC]

And neither those who hold to your friend "Calvin" or those who hold to free will are denying that. 37818 has proven that. Guess it's just a matter of perspective on what that truly means.

So you agree:
God's grace saved through the faith gifted to the one God graciously saved, by the particular atonement Jesus died to save.
Very good.

 

[Van]

You are speaking around your accusation of my doctrine.
The Bible says we are saved by grace. It never says we are saved by faith. Instead it says saved by grace, through faith. This declares that God makes you alive by grace and gives you faith, by grace, and justifies you by gracious faith, and sanctifies you by grace and glorifies you by grace.
God causes you to be saved, to have faith and to believe what He has done for you.

You keep attributing faith to a human before God graciously makes that human alive with Christ, yet there is no faith before God graciously saves.

Once again the Falseology advocate posts another outrageous falsehood, did I say anyone was saved by faith or through faith?
To be saved through faith means faith is utilized in accomplishing the salvation, thus our faith must exist before salvation. It is a lock.

All AustinC does is repeat false claims which have each been shown to be unbiblical. Thus obfuscation on display.

 

[AustinC]

To be saved through faith means faith is utilized in accomplishing the salvation, thus our faith must exist before salvation. It is a lock.

*Ephesians 2:4-5*

But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—

Nowhere do we read that our faith must exist before God saves us by grace.
Note that we are saved by grace. Not "by" faith, but instead, "through" faith.

In other words God's grace saves us because God chooses to save us. God chooses to give us faith as the gift of salvation so that we will believe He truly saved us.

If we had faith before our salvation, then our slave master, like a roaring lion, would have consumed it all beforehand and we never would have believed. But, God has given us to Jesus. He has called us by name. He has graciously saved. He has given us, His children, faith to sustain us on our journey.

Van shows no lock. Instead Van shows you a human-centered philosophy that imagines men having faith while being dead in sins, while being bound by their Master, the Devil. He applauds man while making God's grace less than. His lock is a figment of his imagination that lifts up men above their station.