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Alter Calls
- Thread starter God's_Servant
- Start date
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
Thank you for that. I would love to read more about pre-Finney 'altar calls' if you could point me in the right direction.
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
On this I agree and that is where part of my feelings about 'altar calls' comes from. I have met far too many people who looked to their 'walking an aisle' to their salvation.
I really don't have a huge issue with it as long as that is not the focus. To give someone a chance to make a public response is one thing, but to insist that it is an integral aspect of a Biblical service or to judge a church because it does not do it every service is another.
paul wassona
New Member
Lemme see, I just came from my personal altar where I spoke with God. I didn't worship any material thing. No one played 14 verses of Just As I Am to get me to come, in fact only me, God and the devil were there. Well, the devil didn't stay! Ourchurch comes forth to gather in what we call the altar to pray. No animal sacrifices are made. Most of the time if it is that somebody comes to be saved they are spoken with to the side, but that is an individual's response during whatever time he does come forward. It has even happened BEFORE Sunday School! I agree with the sentiments of Tiny Tim, but to deny other churches the autonomy to designate an area for praying I cannot agree. I've seen the altar calls you all are complaing about and ofcourse I agree. Too many are quick to condemn things they haven't come to understand.
I thought I would share this paragraph from an e-letter I receive from a missionary to the Navajo tribe 35 miles from where I live.
From Bro. Bobby Harjo:
{One of our families had a tragedy a few weeks ago. Their 17-year-old nephew got into a confrontation in a parking lot and was run over and killed. Because of this terrible incidence it has caused many of the family members to think about eternity, death and hell. Most of the men in the family have been gang members for years. One of the men came to church a few weeks ago and got saved. Since then, he has not missed a single service. Last week, he brought his brother to hear Tommy Tillman, missionary to the Lepers in Thailand and Mongolia, speak at our church. It was a very broken and tearful young man who kneeled at the alter to pray that day, and accept the Lord Jesus into his heart to save him. Glory to God!! He is the healer of hearts, the one who changed an old wretch like me and is still in the saving business!!}
So I am saying this: Rejoice with this brother in Christ - and don't belittle the fact that he came to the alter to kneel and pray. It brought tears to my eyes to read this, and if it doesn't stir your heart, I worry about you.
From Bro. Bobby Harjo:
{One of our families had a tragedy a few weeks ago. Their 17-year-old nephew got into a confrontation in a parking lot and was run over and killed. Because of this terrible incidence it has caused many of the family members to think about eternity, death and hell. Most of the men in the family have been gang members for years. One of the men came to church a few weeks ago and got saved. Since then, he has not missed a single service. Last week, he brought his brother to hear Tommy Tillman, missionary to the Lepers in Thailand and Mongolia, speak at our church. It was a very broken and tearful young man who kneeled at the alter to pray that day, and accept the Lord Jesus into his heart to save him. Glory to God!! He is the healer of hearts, the one who changed an old wretch like me and is still in the saving business!!}
So I am saying this: Rejoice with this brother in Christ - and don't belittle the fact that he came to the alter to kneel and pray. It brought tears to my eyes to read this, and if it doesn't stir your heart, I worry about you.
Maybe the term "Alter Call" threw you off. People are called never the less and more often than not through a preacher. Paul was a preacher and in Jail the Jailer was called not by Paul but by God through Pauls preaching. He came quickly I imagine and this is what happened from scripture. After an earth quake;
Act 16:27 And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled.
Act 16:28 But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.
Act 16:29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
Act 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Act 16:32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
The Jailer no doubt had heard Paul and Silas preach because it was them He ran to. The Holy Spirit works through the preacher and is why the Jailer asked them how to be saved. It ended up the Jailers whole family was saved.
An alter call is a person asking for help just as that Jailer did.
MB
I kneeled and prayed and received the grace of salvation in the Pastor's study of my home church many years ago. I can still remember the day, time, and exactly where I was when I did so.
They now have turned that study into a storage space for the library.
The ground is sacred, it isn't to be worshipped, it is simply a place (though significant for me.) We shouldn't be so tied to spaces and places since they are all passing. What matters is what happens in the heart. I've led people to Christ in coffee shops, cars, parks, libraries, parking lots, and many other places. These are just places.
They now have turned that study into a storage space for the library.
The ground is sacred, it isn't to be worshipped, it is simply a place (though significant for me.) We shouldn't be so tied to spaces and places since they are all passing. What matters is what happens in the heart. I've led people to Christ in coffee shops, cars, parks, libraries, parking lots, and many other places. These are just places.
It was discussed here as well :http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=62582 from late fall of last year.
I do not believe altar calls should be practiced.
1. They are not prescribed or described in Scripture. Practices in worship must be Biblical or else they don't belong. I'm an odd bird - I believe the Bible :laugh:
2. They make Baptism into something foreign to the NT. in the NT, the baptismal event was the public testimony of a conversion. In the modern Baptist church, walking an aisle is. How messed up is that?
3. They open the door for relying on human faculties rather than on the Holy Spirit to bring about the work of conversion.
4. They are indicative of a poor theology of savlation/soteriology.
It is interesting to note that since altar calls became prevalent in baptist churches, many would argue we've seen a downgrade and easy believism creep in, along with unregenerate membership.
I'm thinking right now of many baptist churches, gospel-centered, who do not give altar calls. they baptize new converts almost every Sunday. I find it interesting that Spurgeon, et.al, never gave them, though they did invite people to come to Christ and had inquiry rooms, etc.
At the end of the day, our practices must come from the Bible. God, not man, is the author of salvation. This is why I think ideally they should not be practiced. But if they must be (because you could preach from the Koran in most Baptist churches but as long as you sing 3 stanzas for an altar call, you're fine) they must be done VERY carefully. But as I said, ideally, churches would be healthy enough to accept the Word and not have them.
I do not believe altar calls should be practiced.
1. They are not prescribed or described in Scripture. Practices in worship must be Biblical or else they don't belong. I'm an odd bird - I believe the Bible :laugh:
2. They make Baptism into something foreign to the NT. in the NT, the baptismal event was the public testimony of a conversion. In the modern Baptist church, walking an aisle is. How messed up is that?
3. They open the door for relying on human faculties rather than on the Holy Spirit to bring about the work of conversion.
4. They are indicative of a poor theology of savlation/soteriology.
It is interesting to note that since altar calls became prevalent in baptist churches, many would argue we've seen a downgrade and easy believism creep in, along with unregenerate membership.
I'm thinking right now of many baptist churches, gospel-centered, who do not give altar calls. they baptize new converts almost every Sunday. I find it interesting that Spurgeon, et.al, never gave them, though they did invite people to come to Christ and had inquiry rooms, etc.
At the end of the day, our practices must come from the Bible. God, not man, is the author of salvation. This is why I think ideally they should not be practiced. But if they must be (because you could preach from the Koran in most Baptist churches but as long as you sing 3 stanzas for an altar call, you're fine) they must be done VERY carefully. But as I said, ideally, churches would be healthy enough to accept the Word and not have them.
paul wassona
New Member
An altar call is a call to prayer. No one is saved apart from prayer. The thing the devil fears most is when the weakest Christian bows to pray, and people demand a Scritpure reference to show altars and altar calls are biblical. What a sad state so many are in.
Tom Butler
New Member
In 95% of Baptist churches and other evangelical faith groups, an altar call is interchangeable with an invitation to "accept" Christ
I can buy the idea that God answered somebody's prayer to please save me. But if it a prayer from me, I'm out of luck, because I didn't pray to be saved. Neither did the Ethiopian Eunuch. Neither did the Phillippian jailer. Neither did Lydia.
No. The devil fears my father-in-law, a retired Baptist pastor and one of the Godliest men I know. I want my FIL praying for me, for the Father hears him.
QUOTE]and people demand a Scritpure reference to show altars and altar calls are biblical. [/QUOTE] I think I'm missing something here. I 'm sure you would encourage a scriptural basis for our faith and practice. So you must mean something other than what it first appears to be. Clarification?
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paul wassona
New Member
Hi Tom, I guess providing the 3 examples you did Would make a case for easy believism, no conviction, just believe. The bible doesn't always give details now does it? How is it you know God saved you if you didn't ask to be forgiven and to be saved? I'm not questioning if you are, I just want to know how you know? The weakest bothers the devil the most because he thought he had him and now God will strengthen him. You'll have to forgive my brevity, I am on my phone.
Tom Butler
New Member
Paul, I definitely am not an easy-believism kinda guy. Yet on more than one occasion in Acts that's exactly what happened. The Ethiopian eunuch asked Philip, "what's to prevent me from being baptized?" Philip said, "if you believe with all your heart, you may"
The eunuch replied "I believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God."
That said, I believe that a guilty sinner may cry out to God for mercy and receive it. But there's nothing in the scripture that says we must.
Now, let me make myself clear. I believe that if a guilty sinner will cry out to God for mercy, God will hear him.
Paul's response to the Phllippian jailer was very simple--'believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you'll be saved."
Now, here's an interesting little thing. Paul, preaching on Mars Hill in Athens, exhorted his listeners to repent. And how did they respond? Acts 17:34 "Some believed."
You asked about how I know I am saved. The scriptures clearly say that salvation comes by repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. I believe God. If I'm wrong, I'll die and go to hell believing God.
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Steven2006
New Member
Great quotes that deal directly to the topic.
Tom Butler
New Member
I've tried to edit the post right about this one at least twice without success. So here's what I was trying to write:
Although the scripture does not require one to pray for salvation, I have no doubt that at if a guilty sinner will cry out to God for mercy in repentance and faith, God will hear him.
Although the scripture does not require one to pray for salvation, I have no doubt that at if a guilty sinner will cry out to God for mercy in repentance and faith, God will hear him.
I disgree.
Scripture states that - whosoever 'calls' upon the name of the Lord will be saved. For it is with the heart man believes unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Note to mention - How can they call upon Him whom they have never heard.
If a person does not pray, my brother they are not saved.
Now, is prayer ALWAYS audible or lengthy? No. Repentance and belief are two sides of the same coin. You can not have one without the other. And if one is truly repentant then one is without question speaking to God about it and this my friend is prayer.
You can not have God working on your heart and you not say anything (whether verbally or in your heart). However you can bet that that person knows exactly when it was they became saved because, as you said, it was when they repented.
Also at each of those even you gave, we can know there was prayer going on even if scripture does not detail everything that transpired there. We can know it because in order to repent one must pray.
Let me just state again for clarificaiton - What scripture doesn't require is a 'set' prayer but prayer is ALWAYS the requirement for salvation, it just isn't always audible or a 15 minute tear-jerker. Prayers can even be as simple as a few words, like I'm sorry (in the mind) but the heart is crying out to God must more so than those two little words can convey.
Personally I believe there are certain things scripture takes as a given and therefore the necessity to state "and they prayed" is there. Prayer is talking to God, plain and simple. If one has indeed believed then they did so by agreeing with the Holy Spirit he was correct in His conviction toward them, and if they believed then they did in fact repent and thus they have in fact prayed/called upon Christ who is the only one able to redeem them.
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paul wassona
New Member
My sentiments exactly, Allan. To believe on Jesus is to incorporate all the parts of salvation; prayer being the conduit in communication with God. The altar is hardly the physical apertunance, but it is more a place within the heart and prayers made from the heart. We make connections with places of where and when we pray. Altar calls are invitations to pray from the heart, anything else is wasted time and no how is salvation.
Tom Butler
New Member
Well, let me start with a response to Allan's post #76.
If I accept your definition of terms, then I suppose I could accept your conclusion. I can see how you came to hold that prayer is necessary.
However, this does not square with what happened to me at my conversion. My expression of repentance and my trust in Christ for salvation was made to my pastor in response to direct questions.
When I arrived at the front of the auditorium (yes, during an invitation) the conversation went along these lines:
Pastor: Why did you come?
Tom: Because I'm lost and I want to be saved.
Pastor: Do you understand that you are a sinner and that the penalty for sin is hell?
Tom: Yes
Pastor; Do you repent of your sin? Are you sorry for your sin?
Tom: Yes
Pastor Are you willing to trust Christ and him alone for your salvation?
Tom: Yes
Pastor: Sit down over there.
Now this was not a matter-of-fact-conversation. I was quite emotional. I was crying I was, in fact, scared to death, because the Holy Spirit had brought me under conviction a minute or so earlier. He showed my my sin, my sinfulness and the consequences.
The point is, I responded to the pastor's questions. When I said "I want to be saved," all he had to do was say "well, ask God to save you." He didn't do that
Maybe my experience can fit into your definition of praying, Allan. But today's modern soul-winning requires a specific prayer from the lost person. I didn't do that, and that's why I said I didn't pray.
If I accept your definition of terms, then I suppose I could accept your conclusion. I can see how you came to hold that prayer is necessary.
However, this does not square with what happened to me at my conversion. My expression of repentance and my trust in Christ for salvation was made to my pastor in response to direct questions.
When I arrived at the front of the auditorium (yes, during an invitation) the conversation went along these lines:
Pastor: Why did you come?
Tom: Because I'm lost and I want to be saved.
Pastor: Do you understand that you are a sinner and that the penalty for sin is hell?
Tom: Yes
Pastor; Do you repent of your sin? Are you sorry for your sin?
Tom: Yes
Pastor Are you willing to trust Christ and him alone for your salvation?
Tom: Yes
Pastor: Sit down over there.
Now this was not a matter-of-fact-conversation. I was quite emotional. I was crying I was, in fact, scared to death, because the Holy Spirit had brought me under conviction a minute or so earlier. He showed my my sin, my sinfulness and the consequences.
The point is, I responded to the pastor's questions. When I said "I want to be saved," all he had to do was say "well, ask God to save you." He didn't do that
Maybe my experience can fit into your definition of praying, Allan. But today's modern soul-winning requires a specific prayer from the lost person. I didn't do that, and that's why I said I didn't pray.
Tom Butler
New Member
Hmmm. How about, "well walk down the aisle to the altar here and start praying, and then I'll tell you what to do."
Or, "bow your head right where you are and repeat after me. Dear Lord, I realize that I'm a sinner...l.."
Sorry, you question was sincere and I shouldn't have treated it facetiously. It was not aimed at you, believe me.
My first thought was to say to him "you must repent of your sin and trust Christ alone for salvation. Will you do that?"
Then I got to thinking, I need to talk to this guy some more. I need to know more about where he is spiritually. I need to know more of his understanding of spiritual things, even the language we use. So I'll probably ask the fellow to stick around after the service and we'll talk.